Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[mackenzie]

What time is the report out tomorrow?

Family get the
Hillsborough papers at 9am, press at
12pm, PM statement at 12:30pm,
families statement at 14:30

Let's hope they get something that is Justice.
It's been far too long to wait.

Justice for the 96.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I have nothing against Liverpool, or their fans. I have nothing against the Police (I lie), or their fans. However, I like to understand the truth, not some sort of slanted bias.

I've read both reports, in full, and have my view. I have also had (I won't say heated) conversations with an ex-headmaster who was there on the day (who also had children and family there) where I purely based my opinion on what I had read in the media. I was all against the Police and all for the supporters, afterall, I was one of them in that time, yet he made me think, and led me to reading into what the reality was.

A tragic set of events caused by previous wrongs made by many different agencies.

I'll debate with you, or anybody else no further, unless they have read the full reports. And, understood them.

The more pertinent point I would suggest is not whether people have read and understood the full reports but whether anyone has read and understood your posts.

I've read about six or seven and still haven't got a scooby what the hell you're going on about.

Let me explain on his behalf Ste.

Our friend believes that Liverpool fans 'rushed' the gate and that there were a huge number who were drunk and without tickets. He doesn't accept that they were mainly just fans with tickets who were anxious to get into a ground where the turnstiles were inadequate to deal with the flow and they were getting crushed. He doesn't seem to take into account that there were drunk fans without tickets at every big game and there will continue to be. There will be drunk City fans in Madrid next Tuesday without tickets. But he ignores that and legitimises the deaths of 96 people as being a direct consequence of those fans who'd had a few and didn't have tickets.

He doesn't accept that the failure of the police to repeat the operation of the year before, when they actively managed the flow of fans down Leppings Lane and prevented such a build up played any part in causing that crush.

He also believes that the Taylor Report was politically motivated in order to ensure the problem of football hooliganism was eliminated. Now he has a fair point there about the Final Report but it doesn't address the core issue of why 96 people died at Hillsborough, which was addressed in the Interim Report.

He doesn't accept the bald facts uncovered in the Interim Taylor Report because he spoke to one man who presumably told him something about drunken, rampaging Liverpool fans (although he hasn't got the balls to actually say this on the forum). He therefore chooses to believe anything in Taylor that refers to the fans' behaviour without looking at the overall context and timeline.

And then he has the cheek to tell us he's open-minded and we are the ones who have made up our minds.

 

[The Future's Blue]

the bottom line of hillsborough on what i have read is that the low rank officers did all they could once they realised what was happening, but there was a distinct lack of response from senior officers. accounts were deleted or altered and officers were told to amend them to show the police in a favourable light. any which showed the fans in a negative light were left unaltered. the only people that were organised on the pitch were the fans who ferried people on makeshift stretchers.

The fans were exceptional, only to be envisaged. The problems were really exemplified that day. It was a sad day.

 

[yerwot?]

the bottom line of hillsborough on what i have read is that the low rank officers did all they could once they realised what was happening, but there was a distinct lack of response from senior officers. accounts were deleted or altered and officers were told to amend them to show the police in a favourable light. any which showed the fans in a negative light were left unaltered. the only people that were organised on the pitch were the fans who ferried people on makeshift stretchers.

The fans were exceptional, only to be envisaged. The problems were really exemplified that day. It was a sad day.

pardon me for asking but are you related to Stanley Unwin? You share a remarkable talent to confound and confuse, even the previously unbested PB has shown signs of edginess,consternation almost.

 

[The Future's Blue]

I have nothing against Liverpool, or their fans. I have nothing against the Police (I lie), or their fans. However, I like to understand the truth, not some sort of slanted bias.

I've read both reports, in full, and have my view. I have also had (I won't say heated) conversations with an ex-headmaster who was there on the day (who also had children and family there) where I purely based my opinion on what I had read in the media. I was all against the Police and all for the supporters, afterall, I was one of them in that time, yet he made me think, and led me to reading into what the reality was.

A tragic set of events caused by previous wrongs made by many different agencies.

I'll debate with you, or anybody else no further, unless they have read the full reports. And, understood them.

The more pertinent point I would suggest is not whether people have read and understood the full reports but whether anyone has read and understood your posts.

I've read about six or seven and still haven't got a scooby what the hell you're going on about.

Let me explain on his behalf Ste.

Our friend believes that Liverpool fans 'rushed' the gate and that there were a huge number who were drunk and without tickets. He doesn't accept that they were mainly just fans with tickets who were anxious to get into a ground where the turnstiles were inadequate to deal with the flow and they were getting crushed. He doesn't seem to take into account that there were drunk fans without tickets at every big game and there will continue to be. There will be drunk City fans in Madrid next Tuesday without tickets. But he ignores that and legitimises the deaths of 96 people as being a direct consequence of those fans who'd had a few and didn't have tickets.

He doesn't accept that the failure of the police to repeat the operation of the year before, when they actively managed the flow of fans down Leppings Lane and prevented such a build up played any part in causing that crush.

He also believes that the Taylor Report was politically motivated in order to ensure the problem of football hooliganism was eliminated. Now he has a fair point there about the Final Report but it doesn't address the core issue of why 96 people died at Hillsborough, which was addressed in the Interim Report.

He doesn't accept the bald facts uncovered in the Interim Taylor Report because he spoke to one man who presumably told him something about drunken, rampaging Liverpool fans (although he hasn't got the balls to actually say this on the forum). He therefore chooses to believe anything in Taylor that refers to the fans' behaviour without looking at the overall context and timeline.

And then he has the cheek to tell us he's open-minded and we are the ones who have made up our minds.

Our friend, that's something we'd say about an outsider, wouldn't you think!

PS. That is the biggest load of condescending bollox I've ever heard.

28. This was exemplified by the sequence of alterations at the Leppings Lane end at Hillsborough. Radial fences were installed to divide up the terraces; this led to a reduction in the system of crush barriers. The area
inside the turnstiles was altered for purposes of segregation. Old signs were not removed; new signs were inadequate. The result was a bewildering complex which contributed to the delivery of excessive numbers
down the tunnel into pens 3 and 4.

 

[SiMCFC]

Watched the documentary tonight, read the books and my opinion is the same as it always has been, the police were at fault and the same incident could and would have happened to any set of fans, the suffering the familys have been caused by corruption in the police, government and media is utterly appaling and had any of us tried to do the same thing we would have been sent to prison long ago for perverting the course of justice! I just hope that anyone affected gets some justice and eventually some closure to the whole event, we are all football fans at the end of the day! We love this sport and should all be backing Liverpool fans, rivally is out of the window for events like Hillsborough imo

 

[The Future's Blue]

Now that I've got the time, I'll debate your point. It won't be as you please, but still, it'll care.

Cheers

 

[Lucky Toma]

Now that I've got the time, I'll debate your point. It won't be as you please, but still, it'll care.

Cheers

What??? You know all the right words. Just not necessarily in the right order.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Here is a 100% unmitigated apology from me about the Hillsborough disaster.

I have just deen the ITV documentary on iPlayer.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the Police were responsible for the tragic events that happened that day.

To all Liverpool supporters and the Campaigners for Justice for the 96, I support you and hope that you get everything you are seeking to achieve.

Well done BigJoe..that is a well timed and considered shift of position..the posts you made the previous night were rubbish..... couldn,t bring myself to have a debate at the time,still felt raw after watching the documentary.

 

[Dubai Blue]

the bottom line of hillsborough on what i have read is that the low rank officers did all they could once they realised what was happening, but there was a distinct lack of response from senior officers. accounts were deleted or altered and officers were told to amend them to show the police in a favourable light. any which showed the fans in a negative light were left unaltered. the only people that were organised on the pitch were the fans who ferried people on makeshift stretchers.

The fans were exceptional, only to be envisaged. The problems were really exemplified that day. It was a sad day.

If you're not capable of expressing your opinions in coherent English, I'd say it's best you stay away from this thread. I've read all of your posts and not understood a single one of them.

Edit: Just noticed the times of your posts. You were obviously pissed out of your mind. Please come back on with a clear head and express your views in a way that actually makes sense. If people know what point you're actually trying to make they can at least address appropriately.