Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[Prestwich_Blue]

I think we all know where the original cover up came from and who was the driving force behind it. If you're in any doubt about how the blame was shifted on to the fans look at the news reports immediately after the event. They all blamed the Police. Yet somehow it became generally accepted (by those who wanted to believe it) that it was the fans fault. Only one organisation was powerful enough to get the media onside with that untruth and in my opinion that was the Government. A view they (and subsequent Governments) perpetuated for 23 years.

The flaw in your argument is that the cover-up started within minutes, when the police officer in charge at Hillsborough, Duckenfield, told Graham Kelly the blatant lie that Liverpool fans had forced open the gate. He himself had given the instructions to open that gate as the crush built up outside. Once he'd told that lie, everything else had to fall into place. It was the police who briefed the press with all the stories vilifying the Liverpool fans and then briefed Thatcher & local MP Irving Patnick.

If you read the papers, it's clear that Thatcher & Ingham were suspicious that the police were mounting a cover up but possibly as a result of their role in the miners' strike, decided to let sleeping dogs lie. After all, there were no votes for them on Merseyside.

So the Thatcher government certainly didn't initiate or demand a cover up. The worst you could accuse them of at the time was to turn a blind eye to the possibility of one having taken place. Once the Taylor Report was published though, it should have been clear that one had taken place.

 

[Blue Punter]

I think we all know where the original cover up came from and who was the driving force behind it. If you're in any doubt about how the blame was shifted on to the fans look at the news reports immediately after the event. They all blamed the Police. Yet somehow it became generally accepted (by those who wanted to believe it) that it was the fans fault. Only one organisation was powerful enough to get the media onside with that untruth and in my opinion that was the Government. A view they (and subsequent Governments) perpetuated for 23 years.

The flaw in your argument is that the cover-up started within minutes, when the police officer in charge at Hillsborough, Duckenfield, told Graham Kelly the blatant lie that Liverpool fans had forced open the gate. He himself had given the instructions to open that gate as the crush built up outside. Once he'd told that lie, everything else had to fall into place. It was the police who briefed the press with all the stories vilifying the Liverpool fans and then briefed Thatcher & local MP Irving Patnick.

If you read the papers, it's clear that Thatcher & Ingham were suspicious that the police were mounting a cover up but possibly as a result of their role in the miners' strike, decided to let sleeping dogs lie. After all, there were no votes for them on Merseyside.

So the Thatcher government certainly didn't initiate or demand a cover up. The worst you could accuse them of at the time was to turn a blind eye to the possibility of one having taken place. Once the Taylor Report was published though, it should have been clear that one had taken place.

Despite what the police said, their negligent role was highlighted by the media from the outset. That's evident from the rolling news clip (posted above) from the following days. Strange how that theory fell away and the blame was shifted onto the fans.

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start. In January 1989, some three months before the Hillsborough Disaster, , Clare Short MP was calling in the House of Commons for an inquiry into the alleged malpractices of the West Midlands Police. She stated:

No solicitor in Birmingham would say anything other than that the [West Midlands Police] serious crime squad is fundamentally dishonest. The men in the squad decide who are guilty and frame them.

I'd suggest "turning a blind eye" to what actually happened is tantamount to a cover up.

As you say, South Yorks police were owed a few favours by that Government and Thatcher and her cronies didn't disappoint.

 

[mackenzie]

I read a book the other day about the disaster, written a few years back. I already knew the details about what happened that day but the first chapter took my breath away; it read as an account of the Hillsborough disaster, almost minute by minute and the horror that happened. Only at the end did the author reveal that it was an account of the Burnden Park disaster of 1946.

Hillsborough was over 40 years later and the authorities still hadnt learned.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start.

You've got some of your facts a bit mixed up I think. It was SYP themselves who called in WMP to investigate. Even to this day, I have no faith in the police investigating the police. Like doctors, the police instinct is to close ranks and come up with a tissue of ludicrous, barely believable lies rather than hold their hands up and admit they got it wrong.

The government set up the Taylor enquiry, which was independent but relied on a lot of the work done by WMP. Even so, a lot of the police spin was shown to be nonsense by Taylor. At the very least Duckenfield should have been prosecuted even if that was little more a gesture.

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

 

[Zabbasbeard]

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start.

You've got some of your facts a bit mixed up I think. It was SYP themselves who called in WMP to investigate. Even to this day, I have no faith in the police investigating the police. Like doctors, the police instinct is to close ranks and come up with a tissue of ludicrous, barely believable lies rather than hold their hands up and admit they got it wrong.

The government set up the Taylor enquiry, which was independent but relied on a lot of the work done by WMP. Even so, a lot of the police spin was shown to be nonsense by Taylor. At the very least Duckenfield should have been prosecuted even if that was little more a gesture.

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

Totally agree Police shouldn't investigate Police. SYP and WMP both corrupt and violent organisations made it worse.

The idea for the cover up came from various people like the Police. there is evidence that the Ambulance service were also complicit.
Turning a blind eye is being gulty of being an integral part of the cover up, PB. Shameful for Thatcher and her Government. Her own MP Irvine Patnick (the Sheffield Hallam MP of the time) was spreading the lies too. The Tories were very complicit in the cover up.

 

[The Flash]

That twat Bettison should be fucking shitting himself.

****.

 

[Zabbasbeard]

That twat Bettison should be fucking shitting himself.

****.

Hopefully he is very uncomfortable and dreads knocking of the door, which hopefully will come, and he will hopefully spend a long time in jail, where he will hopefully have a very unpleasant time. Hopefully...but I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Anonymous]

no particular governments come out of it with any particular credit. the FA itself has escaped the criticism it deserves as it was they who considered hillsborough a suitable venue. a venue that had no safety certificate no less as changes to the fencing and dynamics had rendered the certificate invalid. !! for me the main responsibility is the police as an organisation. how the likes of dukinfield and bettison sleep peacefully at night is beyond comprehension. only the tenacity of families, individuals , fans themselves and support from MP'S such as andy burnham,maria eagle, steve rotherham etc kept it from being forgotten.

Agreed. The rolling news clip (I say clip it runs for over an hour!) really got to me. Managed 8 minutes before that **** Middup popped up. Nearly put my fist through the laptop screen.

 

[Zabbasbeard]

I think we all know where the original cover up came from and who was the driving force behind it. If you're in any doubt about how the blame was shifted on to the fans look at the news reports immediately after the event. They all blamed the Police. Yet somehow it became generally accepted (by those who wanted to believe it) that it was the fans fault. Only one organisation was powerful enough to get the media onside with that untruth and in my opinion that was the Government. A view they (and subsequent Governments) perpetuated for 23 years.

The flaw in your argument is that the cover-up started within minutes, when the police officer in charge at Hillsborough, Duckenfield, told Graham Kelly the blatant lie that Liverpool fans had forced open the gate. He himself had given the instructions to open that gate as the crush built up outside. Once he'd told that lie, everything else had to fall into place. It was the police who briefed the press with all the stories vilifying the Liverpool fans and then briefed Thatcher & local MP Irving Patnick.

If you read the papers, it's clear that Thatcher & Ingham were suspicious that the police were mounting a cover up but possibly as a result of their role in the miners' strike, decided to let sleeping dogs lie. After all, there were no votes for them on Merseyside.

So the Thatcher government certainly didn't initiate or demand a cover up. The worst you could accuse them of at the time was to turn a blind eye to the possibility of one having taken place. Once the Taylor Report was published though, it should have been clear that one had taken place.

Despite what the police said, their negligent role was highlighted by the media from the outset. That's evident from the rolling news clip (posted above) from the following days. Strange how that theory fell away and the blame was shifted onto the fans.

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start. In January 1989, some three months before the Hillsborough Disaster, , Clare Short MP was calling in the House of Commons for an inquiry into the alleged malpractices of the West Midlands Police. She stated:

No solicitor in Birmingham would say anything other than that the [West Midlands Police] serious crime squad is fundamentally dishonest. The men in the squad decide who are guilty and frame them.

I'd suggest "turning a blind eye" to what actually happened is tantamount to a cover up.

As you say, South Yorks police were owed a few favours by that Government and Thatcher and her cronies didn't disappoint.

Great post.<br /><br />-- Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:02 am --<br /><br />

Yet still the Liverpool fans stand at matches.

Proven many times that standing at a ground is safe when correctly managed.

This disaster was down to sheer criminal incompetence and to suggest otherwise flies in the face of what is now common knowledge and frankly fucking disgusting fella.

hear, hear. That is a disgraceful comment "EL APACHE TEVEZ". People like you make me sick.

 

[East Level 2]

I'll accept the comment about Liverpool fans standing might be unpleasant to some and is irrelevant as standing played no part in the disaster, however the Hillsborough families are often quoted in the media when safe standing is discussed.
As to the "cover up"; I thought some papers were published after the Hideous Witch's death that showed Thatcher (and a couple of close allies) asked for one of the reports to be published in such a way that it toned down the criticism of the police.