Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[Zabbasbeard]

Our society, at the top, is riddled with corruption. The strange thing is, most people are blind to this. They persuade themselves there's just the odd rotten apple, when in fact it's a whole barrel of stinking fish.

One of the greatest cons of the 20th century is the so called British sense of fair play. Utter bulls' pizzle. Always applied after the effect. Was glad to hear the 4 agencies (including the FA) this morning though could be answering cases of negligence and unlawful manslaughter.

Quite right. It's a myth. There never has been a "British sense of fair play. "Slavery is a testament to that amongst many other things. Not that Britain is alone in this regard.

The FA to this day has no regard for the fans. the 5:30pm Wembley kick offs being an example of that. They had no consideration in 1989 in awarding that Semi to Hillsborough, knowing there was no safety certificate. How Sheffield Council and Sheff Wed between themselves allowed a ground to be open without a safety certificate is an outrage...even back in '89. None of that excuses the self serving corrupt and violent South Yorkshire Police Force for their handling of that sad day in our history.

Justice for the 96.

 

[Blue Punter]

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start.

You've got some of your facts a bit mixed up I think. It was SYP themselves who called in WMP to investigate. Even to this day, I have no faith in the police investigating the police. Like doctors, the police instinct is to close ranks and come up with a tissue of ludicrous, barely believable lies rather than hold their hands up and admit they got it wrong.

The government set up the Taylor enquiry, which was independent but relied on a lot of the work done by WMP. Even so, a lot of the police spin was shown to be nonsense by Taylor. At the very least Duckenfield should have been prosecuted even if that was little more a gesture.

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

The point I was making was that the Government should have been more proactive in choosing who led the investigation. It was common knowledge WM Police were known for being underhand.

SY Police handled that game & previous semi finals at Hillsborough ineptly. It was obvious they were trying to cover their arses. Why on earth were they allowed to dictate who investigated them? Furthermore why were they allowed to choose the most corrupt police force in the country to do it?

In my view the Government should have insisted the Police force who carried out the investigation were at least credible. Not left such a crucial decision to a group of incompetent liars in SY Police. This wasn't a trivial matter. 96 innocent people died that day. It wasn't something that a blind eye could be turned to. For that reason, I believe that Government were culpable.

 

[DTKOAG]

The BBC are apparently releasing unseen evidence for the new enquiry next year.
Question. Why FFS has it took the BBC to only now release this evidence ??
It really makes you wonder about a big cover up on a grand scale over this.

 

[marco]

The BBC are apparently releasing unseen evidence for the new enquiry next year.
Question. Why FFS has it took the BBC to only now release this evidence ??
It really makes you wonder about a big cover up on a grand scale over this.

big big cover ups. there are a lot of people from top positions who have retired and living a life of luxury when they should be serving jail terms its rife with corruption from the top down, my guess is the thatcher government closed the lid on a lot of evidence so the main culprit would have been thatcher herself then her sidekicks all done under her authority however its to late as usuall she's dead so hey what a surprise the suits at the beeb have found something

 

[shackattack]

of the 237 police offers to be investigated by the IPCC , 17 are now dead, 7 refused to be interviewed ( none of the 7 are serving officers ). in addition to this there are nearly 4,000 handwritten liverpool fans questionnaires to scrutinise. the scale is astonishing, even now they are waiting for police notebooks from south yorkshire and west midlands police forces.

 

[bluemanc]

<a class="postlink" href="http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1576266/hillsborough-footage-edited-barrister-says-liverpool-families-fight-justice?cc=5739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/15762 ... ce?cc=5739</a>
Video footage taken by police on the day of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, in which 96 Liverpool fans died, may have been edited, a barrister has told a pre-inquest hearing.

The campaign for justice over the Hillsborough disaster continues.
PA Photos
The campaign for justice over the Hillsborough disaster continues.
Pete Weatherby QC, representing the families of 21 of the victims, said that an expert witness had looked at handheld camera footage taken by officers and raised concerns that it had been altered.

The hearing was also told that an additional 74 police statements given as evidence following the tragedy were allegedly amended, in addition to the 168 already known about.

Weatherby told the London hearing that it was important that the footage considered at fresh inquests into the deaths of the victims -- to be held in Warrington next year -- was reliable.

He also raised concerns over the quality of the recordings, after it emerged that one family member’s copy of some footage had been significantly better than that initially presented to investigators ahead of the inquests.

Weatherby said: “I would submit an expert should look at this to ensure they are the best possible copies which are put forward.”

Michael Mansfield QC, who is representing a further 74 families, also suggested there were concerns regarding footage that had been in the hands of police.

 

[Gary James]

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

I agree. What does rile me still is that people like Colin Moynihan and Bernard Ingham must have been aware of the facts because of their roles within Thatcher's trusted circle (certainly as far as this was concerned), yet I can't ever recall either of them having to face questions. I'm pretty certain they should have been questioned extensively, especially in the last few years. Instead Moynihan's own position in the sports world was strengthened in the years that followed Hillsborough.

I'm not saying any of those individuals are responsible for any of what happened, but I'm sure they had information about the way it was all handled. I just don't get it. I want to hear Moynihan asked about his own knowledge and what Thatcher knew.

A few thoughts - I'd urge anyone who wonders what it was all about (or who to this day remain critical of LFC fans' actions) to read <a class="postlink" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-Hillsborough-Disaster-Rogan-Taylor/dp/0853231990/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381498422&sr=1-2&keywords=hillsborough" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co.uk/Day-Hillsboroug ... llsborough</a> - this book tells the day's events through the words of those there, including police, medical staff, fans etc. It wasn't written with an angle or to try and blame anyone, it simply used the voices of those involved to say how the day progressed. You can't read it without it affecting you. Had City not been crap, it could easily have been us at Hillsborough.

Next - if it happened now, or if social media had existed then, would the cover up have lasted more than a few minutes? Twitter etc. would have shown the day's progression and there would have been such a storm at the time that all those wild claims by the Sun and the police would have been shown for what they were, while the gate opening and what followed would probably have been caught on film by some fans at least.

 

[Mike N]

You are dead right about the 'it could have been us' thing Gary. When I got on the coach at Blackburn that day, I thought immediately that it could have been us and every time it comes up I have the same memory. If we'd have been at Hillsborough that day it would have been City fans left dead.

It wasnt just the thing that so many people died but it was the State that chose to cover it up. A national disgrace IMHO.

Justice for the 96.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

I agree. What does rile me still is that people like Colin Moynihan and Bernard Ingham must have been aware of the facts because of their roles within Thatcher's trusted circle (certainly as far as this was concerned), yet I can't ever recall either of them having to face questions. I'm pretty certain they should have been questioned extensively, especially in the last few years. Instead Moynihan's own position in the sports world was strengthened in the years that followed Hillsborough.

If you search the HIP archive, you'll find a memo from Ingham to Thatcher in which I think he used the words "...depressingly familiar pattern of events..." about the actions of the police. It's clear he strongly suspected there was a cover-up by the police and that this was not an isolated case. Yet still this buffoon continues to blame the fans and won't come out and admit he's wrong. I've nothing but contempt for people like that.

 

[1961_vintage]

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

I agree. What does rile me still is that people like Colin Moynihan and Bernard Ingham must have been aware of the facts because of their roles within Thatcher's trusted circle (certainly as far as this was concerned), yet I can't ever recall either of them having to face questions. I'm pretty certain they should have been questioned extensively, especially in the last few years. Instead Moynihan's own position in the sports world was strengthened in the years that followed Hillsborough.

If you search the HIP archive, you'll find a memo from Ingham to Thatcher in which I think he used the words "...depressingly familiar pattern of events..." about the actions of the police. It's clear he strongly suspected there was a cover-up by the police and that this was not an isolated case. Yet still this buffoon continues to blame the fans and won't come out and admit he's wrong. I've nothing but contempt for people like that.

A spineless, sycophantic toady and just another "yes-man" hiding behind the skirts of "the iron lady". When he claimed that Hillsborough was the fault of "tanked-up yobs", the more shocking thing was the idea that he actually had an opinion. He didn't of course, he was just another Thatcher mouthpiece. And the Cox Moynihan was just more of the same. Barons and Knights of the Realm. Tossers would be too kind a description.