Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[dazdon]

This is taking far to long and the public need the complete truth instead of a corrupt authority and its members getting away with gaslighting.

Police officers through the rank and file need prosecuting as do complicit ministers and public officials who were derelict in their duties on that day and every subsequent day that followed that sad day.

 

[cibaman]

The Government should have demanded that there was a thorough inquiry from the outset. Not using West Mids police to conduct the independent enquiry would have been a start.

You've got some of your facts a bit mixed up I think. It was SYP themselves who called in WMP to investigate. Even to this day, I have no faith in the police investigating the police. Like doctors, the police instinct is to close ranks and come up with a tissue of ludicrous, barely believable lies rather than hold their hands up and admit they got it wrong.

The government set up the Taylor enquiry, which was independent but relied on a lot of the work done by WMP. Even so, a lot of the police spin was shown to be nonsense by Taylor. At the very least Duckenfield should have been prosecuted even if that was little more a gesture.

I don't accept that the Thatcher government had the idea of or initiated a cover up and there is no evidence that suggests they did. However we agree that they almost certainly knew there had been one but Thatcher was never going to back football fans, who she despised, against the police and the right wing press. I'm certainly not going to argue with you that this was just as bad.

Not so much a government conspiracy, more a case of like minded people arriving at a common view.

 

[Any1aBlue]

I went with some mates who were forest fans, to the semi final the years before. I should classify as a complete unbiased neutral with no axe to grind.

Exactly the same scenario took place both years.
It was unbelievably cramped in the forest end that first year, and I remember thinking they were lucky to get away with it then. The forest fans appeared to behave impeccably and no hint of trouble at all.

I came from the north end, past the Liverpool fans - they were a disgrace and i've never seen anything like it. Looting shops, urinating in gardens, fighting amongst themselves, falling over drunk and terrorising the locals. I witnessed this! Its not exaggerated or made up. Lets not dress it up, It wasnt like watching human beings behave. and it wasnt a few, or sporadic either.

I got into the ground onto the terrace at 2.45pm and the Liverpool end was about 2/3rds full only. There was a big surge after the game had actually kicked off as masses piled in at the back.

I didnt go the following year (obviously im not a forest fan), but my friends did and described exactly the same scenario. The general consensus was - saw that coming.....................

 

[jimharri]

I went with some mates who were forest fans, to the semi final the years before. Exactly the same scenario.
It was unbelievably cramped in the forest end that year, and I remember thinking they were lucky to get away with it then. The forest fans appeared to behave impeccably and no hint of trouble at all.

I came from the north end, past the Liverpool fans - they were a disgrace and i've never seen anything like it. Looting shops, urinating in gardens, fighting amongst themselves, falling over drunk and terrorising the locals. I witnessed this! Its not exaggerated or made up.

I got into the ground onto the terrace at 2.45pm and the Liverpool end was about 2/3rds full only. There was a big surge after the game had actually kicked off as masses piled in at the back.

I didnt go the following year (obviously im not a forest fan), but my friends did and described exactly the same scenario. The general consensus was - saw that coming.....................

This could get, er, interesting.

 

[shackattack]

So you witnessed all those incidents in one short walk from one end of the stadium to the other ? That was some walk , did you not feel inclined to report any of those incidents to the local police?

 

[Any1aBlue]

So you witnessed all those incidents in one short walk from one end of the stadium to the other ? That was some walk , did you not feel inclined to report any of those incidents to the local police?

Calling me a liar? Sounds familiar to this inquiry methinks! Very easy from the armchair isnt it. I WASNT THERE ON THE DAY OF THE DISATER - ONLY THE SEASON BEFORE!

Not a short walk. I'd parked a distance away at a mate's house in Sheffield's. There were already reports of trouble at pubs on the north side.

I walked down the the leppings lane to meet my forest mates at tuther end, I would guess that more than half the Liverpool fans I saw were paralytic. I saw the off license on the left half way down looted, with fans running out with arm fulls and into the melee onto the street where numerous men were urinating where they staggered about without any attempt to be discrete including in gardens there. At best it was pandemonium, at worst just complete anarchy. Yes, I'd describe it as frightening. I turned right down the main stand back to the far end where the forest fans were. Hope that helps.

As for contacting any Police, I only saw one - SHE was on horse back outside the ground batting fans away with her stick - not sure she was in a position to take down my particulars! How many times have you decided after a game to report numerous incidents at a foreign station? Get realistic pal.

I saw absolutely no such problems at the forest end, which was also hugely cramped. No hint of trouble at any time, before during or after and no Police around there either, merely stewards checking tickets.

Two of my friends were in the Main Stand on the day of the disaster,that was the following year, sat right next to the Liverpool fans overlooking the Leppings Lane - they told me Liverpool fans were actually fighting,proper punching and scrapping not just arguing, amongst themselves in the stands whilst the disaster was unfolding on the pitch below! I didnt say this - they did.

I've got no axe to grind with anyone on this, but I was there in the identical game the season before - I can only report on that. You weren't at either, so you cant. It seems to me there's alot of folks who saw stuff like me who may have been and still are too uncomfortable about reporting stuff.

None of this takes away the sadness and avoidable tragedy of what took place, and all my thoughts, then and now, go out to those who lost loved ones that terrible day. It shouldn't have happened....................

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I still don't understand why the actions of a minority of Liverpool supporters in any way absolves the police of any blame whatsoever in this. Their job when crowds converge is to maintain public order and be prepared for things not to go to plan. People turn up pissed at football games: always have; always will. South Yorkshire Police singularly failed in their duty to protect the public.

Do people blame pissed up night-clubbers when the fire escapes are nailed shut when there's a fire and they burn to death? Did people blame the victims of the Marchioness because most of them were off their heads on pills when it capsized and sank?

 

[Mike N]

I still don't understand why the actions of a minority of Liverpool supporters in any way absolves the police of any blame whatsoever in this. Their job when crowds converge is to maintain public order and be prepared for things not to go to plan. People turn up pissed at football games: always have; always will. South Yorkshire Police singularly failed in their duty to protect the public.

Do people blame pissed up night-clubbers when the fire escapes are nailed shut when there's a fire and they burn to death? Did people blame the victims of the Marchioness because most of them were off their heads on pills when it sank?

So true.

I've seen blues behave badly, very badly. They didnt deserve to die though.

 

[shackattack]

Your right in assuming I was not there for either game. I did however have close friends who were and some have never spoke of it to me and the others are no longer able to. I was however there soon after for id purposes and believe me some of those scenes you would not wish on others. Am not saying everyone was sober or behaved impeccably but the authorities if anything should have learned from the season before and before etc. Wolves v spurs, coventry v Leeds they all experienced crowd problems. I want the inquiry next year to uncover the truth in every way because no one ever should go a game and come home in a body bag

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I still don't understand why the actions of a minority of Liverpool supporters in any way absolves the police of any blame whatsoever in this. Their job when crowds converge is to maintain public order and be prepared for things not to go to plan. People turn up pissed at football games: always have; always will. South Yorkshire Police singularly failed in their duty to protect the public.

Do people blame pissed up night-clubbers when the fire escapes are nailed shut when there's a fire and they burn to death? Did people blame the victims of the Marchioness because most of them were off their heads on pills when it sank?

So true.

I've seen blues behave badly, very badly. They didnt deserve to die though.

Exactly, it was a fucking semi final. What the fuck were they expecting, a load of boy scouts? In actual fact ANY1aBLUE's post has (probably inadvertantly) added weight to my point. If there was behaviour like that in previous seasons why the fuck weren't SYP prepared for it? It seems too absurd for words.

The Police have the power to detain and lock people up as well as stopping and searching people etc, but with those powers comes a great responsibility to protect the public. I'm not entirely sure why it's even being debated tbh.

Events like this (thankfully) don't happen every week. On that basis those in charge must have done something wholly wrong that day. It's quite simple really.