Home grown players (merged)

[FanchesterCity]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

Kids in Britain just aren't playing football as often as they used to do.

Britain has changed, and whilst there's still lots of kids playing organised football, it's a pittance compared to 40 years ago when kids would play for hours on end at the end of the street.

4-5 hours a week coaching is still no match for 15 hours or more a week with the ball at your feet.

Our kids are no less talented than Spanish or German, or Brazilian kids. But the culture they grow up in is markedly different.

Of course with 20 million kids in our country, there will still be the odd gem out there, but that's where the scouting system has to take over and find them. Not only that, but even if a young lad is spotted and encouraged to be coached at a club, it's not just about his raw talent, but his application and attitude - another potential issue with British kids. An awful lot of talent falls by the wayside due to bad attitude.

To believe the PL and it's influx of foreign players is to blame is folly. This is a grass roots issue that fails to provide enough top talent at the top level. The PL is essentially the 'result' of systemic failure, not the cause of it.

 

[crmcfc]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

great post this spot on. and imo we could be in trouble with Dyke and Gill in tow, so should be looking at English players

On the day that we've signed Fernando and Bruno Zuculini, the rags have signed Luke Shaw, and Adam Lallana's having a medical at Candlepool. I think the World Cup constituted fair proof that most English players are overpriced and/or shite, but as an avenue for post FFP attack, are we leaving ourselves wide open by not bidding for English players? The rags, Liverpool and the Arse are awash with them, and I'd be willing to bet they will move heaven and earth never to miss out on the Chimps League again. With Gill established at UEFA and that other rag stooge Dyke in situ at the EPL, the most obvious curve ball they can now throw us is an insistence on, say, at least 4 home grown players starting every game. Should we not be in the market for players like Lallana, Caulker or Townsend on that basis?

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

Interesting article in the Telegraph in conversation with Alan Pardew by as to why clubs don't buy English players: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/newcastle-united/10933747/Luke-Shaws-30m-price-tag-is-why-we-buy-foreign-at-Newcastle-we-cant-afford-English-says-Alan-Pardew.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... ardew.html</a>

The same will apply to many Prem clubs , so I can't see the Premier League (except the usual suspects) going for it any time soon.

 

[IH8MUFC]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

I think it's a fair enough rule having 3 home grown players. I said the same thing when Arsenal were fielding 11 non English players so I'll have the same opinion now.

For all the talk that English players are not good enough, well we have Kun, Dzeko, Negredo and Jovetic up front. For an 18 year old kid that is going to be near on impossible to get on the bench let alone starting 11. If these players themselves had this situation themselves they would have struggled to break in.

 

[SaddleworthBlueRhino]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

Kids in Britain just aren't playing football as often as they used to do.

Britain has changed, and whilst there's still lots of kids playing organised football, it's a pittance compared to 40 years ago when kids would play for hours on end at the end of the street.

4-5 hours a week coaching is still no match for 15 hours or more a week with the ball at your feet.

Our kids are no less talented than Spanish or German, or Brazilian kids. But the culture they grow up in is markedly different.

Of course with 20 million kids in our country, there will still be the odd gem out there, but that's where the scouting system has to take over and find them. Not only that, but even if a young lad is spotted and encouraged to be coached at a club, it's not just about his raw talent, but his application and attitude - another potential issue with British kids. An awful lot of talent falls by the wayside due to bad attitude.

To believe the PL and it's influx of foreign players is to blame is folly. This is a grass roots issue that fails to provide enough top talent at the top level. The PL is essentially the 'result' of systemic failure, not the cause of it.

Yes.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

I think it's a fair enough rule having 3 home grown players. I said the same thing when Arsenal were fielding 11 non English players so I'll have the same opinion now.

For all the talk that English players are not good enough, well we have Kun, Dzeko, Negredo and Jovetic up front. For an 18 year old kid that is going to be near on impossible to get on the bench let alone starting 11. If these players themselves had this situation themselves they would have struggled to break in.

Whilst that's probably true, it just turns one issue into another - the price of 'prime' English players skyrockets (which is partly why clubs started looking abroad in the first place).

Admittedly 'home grown' doesn't mean English per se - but still, if you're adopting a world wide recruiting network, and you're operating it fairly (no bias) the odds are that only a minority will come from England anyway, since you'll be scouting in 20 different countries (many of which may have larger numbers of kids to scout from), so by sheer probability, not many will be English.

In that instance, home grown will be fine, but it doesn't mean English. If we twist the rules to actually MEAN English players, then the price will be at a premium, meaning the top clubs (as always) will grab up the best because they are the only ones who can afford them.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not sure quotas is it.

Something else I've been thinking too.... if the influx of foreign players IS the problem, then how come the there's plenty of nations where most of their players play abroad (and not at home) manage to have decent national sides? effectively they are playing with a bunch of foreigners at club level too.

 

[IH8MUFC]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

I think it's a fair enough rule having 3 home grown players. I said the same thing when Arsenal were fielding 11 non English players so I'll have the same opinion now.

For all the talk that English players are not good enough, well we have Kun, Dzeko, Negredo and Jovetic up front. For an 18 year old kid that is going to be near on impossible to get on the bench let alone starting 11. If these players themselves had this situation themselves they would have struggled to break in.

Whilst that's probably true, it just turns one issue into another - the price of 'prime' English players skyrockets (which is partly why clubs started looking abroad in the first place).

Admittedly 'home grown' doesn't mean English per se - but still, if you're adopting a world wide recruiting network, and you're operating it fairly (no bias) the odds are that only a minority will come from England anyway, since you'll be scouting in 20 different countries (many of which may have larger numbers of kids to scout from), so by sheer probability, not many will be English.

In that instance, home grown will be fine, but it doesn't mean English. If we twist the rules to actually MEAN English players, then the price will be at a premium, meaning the top clubs (as always) will grab up the best because they are the only ones who can afford them.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not sure quotas is it.

Something else I've been thinking too.... if the influx of foreign players IS the problem, then how come the there's plenty of nations where most of their players play abroad (and not at home) manage to have decent national sides? effectively they are playing with a bunch of foreigners at club level too.

I think the main problem is that in general teams in the premiership have more money so more power. So can ask for more money than a French, Portuguese team for one of their players. English clubs don't have to sell unless a Leeds/Portsmouth situation comes up.

 

[mastermind]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

English players fall in these categories:

- Overpriced
- Not good enough
- Not needed

Shaw was overpriced, Townsend is not good enough and Lallana is not needed.

 

[Why Always Ste]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

If I ever had a kid (and he enjoyed Footy) he will be schooled on foreign football, avoiding English coaching and this "must win" attitude that I myself experienced as a kid in the local leagues... learning Fuck all.

Futsal needs to be introduced in our schools.
Many schools have in door halls so why not?

In my sport of MMA I learnt the most during sparring, literally spending hours just messing with mates in the dojo.
Winning never came into it, and it didnt have to.

After developing skills for many years I progressed into competing.

I repeat, my son won't be playing any competitive like shit for years, he'll be allowed to enjoy football (if he wants) and introduced to different methods of play, rather than the:

Hey Steven, lump it up front to the striker so we can score

That's all I ever did playing Footy for teams competitively, with screaming parents at the side.

It doesn't work. Enjoying it does.

 

[Dribble]

Re: Transfer Policy - English players

On the day that we've signed Fernando and Bruno Zuculini, the rags have signed Luke Shaw, and Adam Lallana's having a medical at Candlepool. I think the World Cup constituted fair proof that most English players are overpriced and/or shite, but as an avenue for post FFP attack, are we leaving ourselves wide open by not bidding for English players? The rags, Liverpool and the Arse are awash with them, and I'd be willing to bet they will move heaven and earth never to miss out on the Chimps League again. With Gill established at UEFA and that other rag stooge Dyke in situ at the EPL, the most obvious curve ball they can now throw us is an insistence on, say, at least 4 home grown players starting every game. Should we not be in the market for players like Lallana, Caulker or Townsend on that basis?

The HGQ is as fucked as FFP. In no other walk of business could you be stopped from employing the best person for the job. I understand the sentiments of the FA to a degree, but furnishing the England team with decent players isn't our business.

Anyone who wants to know how fucked the English transfer system is needs to consider Andy Carrol cost Liverpool £3m less than Aguero and James Milner cost us more than Yaya or Silva.........

The world cup showed where English players and our youth coaching stands. A root and branch change is required at the youngest level. We are doing our bit with the new campus and hopefully young English talent will benefit, but forcing us to include or play lesser players just to satisfy a fucked HGQ system not of our making is just wrong.

Shaw for £30m just shows how fucked England really are when clubs are forced to pay that kind of money for a 'decent' young defender who's had 1 good season.