Honestly who is/was better?

[Big G]

Silva for me, a player who excels in teams of top end players, Gio was a class above in a team of average players.
I am abit gutted I was too young to see Colin Bell play.

 

[franksinatra]

That's why I would never judge a player just on one season, let alone on one match. The more I hear some City fans comments on KInkladze, the more my mind goes to George Best.

I remember watching George Best - almost certainly a better player than Kinkladze - "single-handedly" destroy Sheffield Wednesday at Hillsborough in the space of 15 minutes (and Man.U. won that game 3-1, all goals by Best - did City only draw 3-3 against Newcastle, despite Kinkladze?).

But was George Best really one of the greatest? Not in my book, even though he had more than one effective season - because he wasted the tremendous talent he had. A few years after the Hillsborough game, I saw Best playing for Fulham - alongside Rodney Marsh - and aside from a few tricks, he wasn't that effective.

Ajax clearly didn't in the end rate Kinkladze very highly.

In fairness no one has yet said Kinkladze is as good as Silva. The one season issue relates to the fact for us he only played one season in the prmeiership. I find it bemusing that Kinkladze gets criticised for his contribution the following seasons as a reflection of his ability. Kit Symons was a perfectly good centre half in the top flight and was shocking for the following two years. Whether its a mindset, lack of motivation or loss of confience playing in a struggling team.

Like I said I Silva was the better player, but I admired Kinkladze's breathtaking skill and the fact that in our darkest hour he never walked away from the club, when many other players wouLld

They have!!! In fact, what is all this emphasis on the "shite", (Gerry Creaney etc.) which surrounded Kinkladze saying, but suggesting that Kinky would have been as good, or better, than Silva in the present team?

I appreciate that many City fans have fond memories of Kinkladze, a shining light in a dark era, and emotional ties to those memories - and commend them for their loyalty to their memories and to himself.

However I feel some of this rather downplays Silva's contributions to the present team. Yes, he is surrounded by much better players than Kinkladze, but so is Messi at Barca, and I've rarely seen that mentioned by all the Messi worshippers who abound on this and other football forums.

And Kinkladze wasn't surrounded by "shite" at Ajax.

I really dont have a clue what you are on about. Not once in this thread have I described Gerry Creaney as shite, just that Kinkladze played in a struggling team, a statement based on facts as we were relegated twice.

Ive only flicked through the thread but I cant see anyone state Kinkladze is better, his biggest fans (such as myself) can all see his failings, but can still respect the influence he had on a generation on City fans at that time.

Im sure I am not alone, and without the benefit of a crystal ball but I cannot imagine any other player reaching the affection I have had for Kinkladze. If someone granted me the wish to watch any player again at their peak it would be Ronaldinho against Madrid at the Bernebeu during his time at Barca or Kinkladze against Newcastle or Oxford.

You are correct its only conjecture that Kinkladze would be better in a better side, but generally that is where artisans flourish, when they get more of the ball, in more dangerous positions against a bewildered back four.

No one is undermining the contribution of David Silva, just appreciating the contribution of a fallen star

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Kinky is/was my idol growing up.. but tbh I would compare him to Robinho..can beat 4 men then stick it in the top corner..but is also lazy.Silva shits over Kinky from a high height.

 

[Duffinho]

Kinkladze was every bit as good as Silva, better in some areas, if kinkladze was in this team even alan hansen would be wanking over him.

 

[franksinatra]

You my friend, have talked the most sense on this debate. Almost word for word exactly what I was about to post. Some posters on here forget the magic that the "Dancer" could conjure up.

Ive said this before on Blue Moon, but at this time a friend made a video of Kinkladze for his dissertation at University to a background of Manchester music.

Its only a short video but reflects the brilliance of the man. Three highlights stick in the memory

Its kick off at the start of the second half, the commentator states "Its a kick off to manchester city, which is usually the cue for Georgiou Kinkladze to make a guinness book of record attempts at beating defenders" Kinkladze picks the ball up and walks around five challenges before his attempted cross is blocked.

Kinkladze stood imperiously on the touch line, with his foot resting on top of the ball, getting abuse from the fans behind him. A defending is literaaly jogging on the spot ready to charge, defender charges at Kinkladze, Kinkladze majectically spins and turns his back on the player, resulting in the defender falling to the ground. Ironic cheers from the City fans as Kinkladze walks off with the ball.

Kinkladze picks up the ball in the city half with man to man marker in tow, Kinkladze faces him up commits defender before skipping away from the challenge, surprisingly he doesnt sprint away letting the defnder recover his position, three times this happens before Kinkladze reaches the edge of the box, beats the hapless defender one more time, nutmegs his mate before screwing his shot wide. For me it was the greatest goal that never was

All this only reinforces the impression I have been getting, possibly unfairly, that Kinkladze was a showboating trickster, effective in a poor team against poor opposition, but found wanting when long-term application is needed in a good side (Ajax) at a high level. A sort of third class Cristiano Ronaldo, who, whatever you think of him as a person, has proved that even a trick pony can hack it at the highest level.

As I said, this impression I am getting of Kinky may be very unfair, but it's actually his supporters on this forum who are giving me that impression!

It sounds like you never had the pleasure of watching him are you could make your own impression up.

Highlighting three of many breathtaking moments does not show him as one trick pony, just that he had breathtaking ability appreciated by the supporters. Some fans on here recently had a thread about Silvas pass against United, commenting on the beauty and perfect execution (and rightly so) it doesnt suggest he is a one trick pony, just exemplifies his unique ability.

 

[Frank H]

In fairness no one has yet said Kinkladze is as good as Silva. The one season issue relates to the fact for us he only played one season in the prmeiership. I find it bemusing that Kinkladze gets criticised for his contribution the following seasons as a reflection of his ability. Kit Symons was a perfectly good centre half in the top flight and was shocking for the following two years. Whether its a mindset, lack of motivation or loss of confience playing in a struggling team.

Like I said I Silva was the better player, but I admired Kinkladze's breathtaking skill and the fact that in our darkest hour he never walked away from the club, when many other players wouLld

They have!!! In fact, what is all this emphasis on the "shite", (Gerry Creaney etc.) which surrounded Kinkladze saying, but suggesting that Kinky would have been as good, or better, than Silva in the present team?

I appreciate that many City fans have fond memories of Kinkladze, a shining light in a dark era, and emotional ties to those memories - and commend them for their loyalty to their memories and to himself.

However I feel some of this rather downplays Silva's contributions to the present team. Yes, he is surrounded by much better players than Kinkladze, but so is Messi at Barca, and I've rarely seen that mentioned by all the Messi worshippers who abound on this and other football forums.

And Kinkladze wasn't surrounded by "shite" at Ajax.

I really dont have a clue what you are on about. Not once in this thread have I described Gerry Creaney as shite, just that Kinkladze played in a struggling team, a statement based on facts as we were relegated twice.

Ive only flicked through the thread but I cant see anyone state Kinkladze is better, his biggest fans (such as myself) can all see his failings, but can still respect the influence he had on a generation on City fans at that time.

Im sure I am not alone, and without the benefit of a crystal ball but I cannot imagine any other player reaching the affection I have had for Kinkladze. If someone granted me the wish to watch any player again at their peak it would be Ronaldinho against Madrid at the Bernebeu during his time at Barca or Kinkladze against Newcastle or Oxford.

You are correct its only conjecture that Kinkladze would be better in a better side, but generally that is where artisans flourish, when they get more of the ball, in more dangerous positions against a bewildered back four.

No one is undermining the contribution of David Silva, just appreciating the contribution of a fallen star

I wasn't accusing you of mentioning Gerry Creaney - but he has been mentioned as an example of the "shite" Kinky was surrounded with.

Once again, I commend City fans, including yourself, for your emotional loyalty to a player who clearly shone for City in a dark era. Loyalty is all too rare these days in football, and should be valued wherever it occurs.

But if no one is suggesting that Kinkladze wasn't at least as good as Silva, what is the point of this entire thread, as summed up in its title???

 

[cibaman]

Its always tricky to compare players that gave us long service with those that only played a year or two.

In terms of "quality per match" Trevor Francis was one of our best players but he rarely gets a mention when it comes to discussions about great City players because he didnt stay long.

How many times was Robinho described as a "Legend" on here? And Tevez.

If Silva never played another game for us, for whatever reason, would people be saying in 5 years time that he was our best ever player?

 

[FanchesterCity]

Kinkladze had some seriously dull games when he hardly did a thing.

At moment, he looked fabulous, and we all remember those moments, but he was a gem in a much duller side - and therefore bound to stand out.

He turned it on against lesser teams (or equal), but he never truly did much against better players, and he didn't go on to prove his worth elsewhere either.

David Silva currently looks a far better player - but (and many fans won't like this) it's still early days. There are 101 instances of players have 1 or possibly 2 great seasons at a club then losing form and never being seen again!

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Gio was Georgian and nobody had ever heard of him so he came to an average-shit team in an average league. Kinkladze was a better player than a 1990's City and Derby standard player, and he arguably deserved a shot at a higher level in his career.

He was faster than Silva, he was more skillful than Silva, he could go past players with great dribbling ability. Yet he is not in the same league as Silva. Silva is now as good as Iniesta, making him in with the very best players in the world after Messi and CRonaldo.

 

[Frank H]

Ive said this before on Blue Moon, but at this time a friend made a video of Kinkladze for his dissertation at University to a background of Manchester music.

Its only a short video but reflects the brilliance of the man. Three highlights stick in the memory

Its kick off at the start of the second half, the commentator states "Its a kick off to manchester city, which is usually the cue for Georgiou Kinkladze to make a guinness book of record attempts at beating defenders" Kinkladze picks the ball up and walks around five challenges before his attempted cross is blocked.

Kinkladze stood imperiously on the touch line, with his foot resting on top of the ball, getting abuse from the fans behind him. A defending is literaaly jogging on the spot ready to charge, defender charges at Kinkladze, Kinkladze majectically spins and turns his back on the player, resulting in the defender falling to the ground. Ironic cheers from the City fans as Kinkladze walks off with the ball.

Kinkladze picks up the ball in the city half with man to man marker in tow, Kinkladze faces him up commits defender before skipping away from the challenge, surprisingly he doesnt sprint away letting the defnder recover his position, three times this happens before Kinkladze reaches the edge of the box, beats the hapless defender one more time, nutmegs his mate before screwing his shot wide. For me it was the greatest goal that never was

All this only reinforces the impression I have been getting, possibly unfairly, that Kinkladze was a showboating trickster, effective in a poor team against poor opposition, but found wanting when long-term application is needed in a good side (Ajax) at a high level. A sort of third class Cristiano Ronaldo, who, whatever you think of him as a person, has proved that even a trick pony can hack it at the highest level.

As I said, this impression I am getting of Kinky may be very unfair, but it's actually his supporters on this forum who are giving me that impression!

It sounds like you never had the pleasure of watching him are you could make your own impression up.

Highlighting three of many breathtaking moments does not show him as one trick pony, just that he had breathtaking ability appreciated by the supporters. Some fans on here recently had a thread about Silvas pass against United, commenting on the beauty and perfect execution (and rightly so) it doesnt suggest he is a one trick pony, just exemplifies his unique ability.

Fair enough. I can only go on how people describe him.

I have nothing against trick ponies per se. They can indeed be great to watch, as Cristiano Ronaldo can be, if you don't hate him or the team he plays for. But being a trick pony doesn't by itself make a good football player.

In the end, how good a player Kinkladze could have been remains a mystery