franksinatra said:Frank H said:They have!!! In fact, what is all this emphasis on the "shite", (Gerry Creaney etc.) which surrounded Kinkladze saying, but suggesting that Kinky would have been as good, or better, than Silva in the present team?franksinatra said:In fairness no one has yet said Kinkladze is as good as Silva. The one season issue relates to the fact for us he only played one season in the prmeiership. I find it bemusing that Kinkladze gets criticised for his contribution the following seasons as a reflection of his ability. Kit Symons was a perfectly good centre half in the top flight and was shocking for the following two years. Whether its a mindset, lack of motivation or loss of confience playing in a struggling team.
Like I said I Silva was the better player, but I admired Kinkladze's breathtaking skill and the fact that in our darkest hour he never walked away from the club, when many other players wouLld
I appreciate that many City fans have fond memories of Kinkladze, a shining light in a dark era, and emotional ties to those memories - and commend them for their loyalty to their memories and to himself.
However I feel some of this rather downplays Silva's contributions to the present team. Yes, he is surrounded by much better players than Kinkladze, but so is Messi at Barca, and I've rarely seen that mentioned by all the Messi worshippers who abound on this and other football forums.
And Kinkladze wasn't surrounded by "shite" at Ajax.
I really dont have a clue what you are on about. Not once in this thread have I described Gerry Creaney as shite, just that Kinkladze played in a struggling team, a statement based on facts as we were relegated twice.
Ive only flicked through the thread but I cant see anyone state Kinkladze is better, his biggest fans (such as myself) can all see his failings, but can still respect the influence he had on a generation on City fans at that time.
Im sure I am not alone, and without the benefit of a crystal ball but I cannot imagine any other player reaching the affection I have had for Kinkladze. If someone granted me the wish to watch any player again at their peak it would be Ronaldinho against Madrid at the Bernebeu during his time at Barca or Kinkladze against Newcastle or Oxford.
You are correct its only conjecture that Kinkladze would be better in a better side, but generally that is where artisans flourish, when they get more of the ball, in more dangerous positions against a bewildered back four.
No one is undermining the contribution of David Silva, just appreciating the contribution of a fallen star
Frank H said:I wasn't accusing you of mentioning Gerry Creaney - but he has been mentioned as an example of the "shite" Kinky was surrounded with.franksinatra said:Frank H said:They have!!! In fact, what is all this emphasis on the "shite", (Gerry Creaney etc.) which surrounded Kinkladze saying, but suggesting that Kinky would have been as good, or better, than Silva in the present team?
I appreciate that many City fans have fond memories of Kinkladze, a shining light in a dark era, and emotional ties to those memories - and commend them for their loyalty to their memories and to himself.
However I feel some of this rather downplays Silva's contributions to the present team. Yes, he is surrounded by much better players than Kinkladze, but so is Messi at Barca, and I've rarely seen that mentioned by all the Messi worshippers who abound on this and other football forums.
And Kinkladze wasn't surrounded by "shite" at Ajax.
I really dont have a clue what you are on about. Not once in this thread have I described Gerry Creaney as shite, just that Kinkladze played in a struggling team, a statement based on facts as we were relegated twice.
Ive only flicked through the thread but I cant see anyone state Kinkladze is better, his biggest fans (such as myself) can all see his failings, but can still respect the influence he had on a generation on City fans at that time.
Im sure I am not alone, and without the benefit of a crystal ball but I cannot imagine any other player reaching the affection I have had for Kinkladze. If someone granted me the wish to watch any player again at their peak it would be Ronaldinho against Madrid at the Bernebeu during his time at Barca or Kinkladze against Newcastle or Oxford.
You are correct its only conjecture that Kinkladze would be better in a better side, but generally that is where artisans flourish, when they get more of the ball, in more dangerous positions against a bewildered back four.
No one is undermining the contribution of David Silva, just appreciating the contribution of a fallen star
Once again, I commend City fans, including yourself, for your emotional loyalty to a player who clearly shone for City in a dark era. Loyalty is all too rare these days in football, and should be valued wherever it occurs.
But if no one is suggesting that Kinkladze wasn't at least as good as Silva, what is the point of this entire thread, as summed up in its title???
franksinatra said:Neville Kneville said:levets said:spot on Billy.... In those days Kinky was 'the shining light' by a mile. He was the one we came to see. Now we have many superstars... that is the difference.
The difference is that Silva plays football & works his bollox off, Gio had a bit of fun to entertain himself with a football & strolled around the pitch doing sweet f.a. the rest of the time.
Gio was signed by Ajax & not good enough for them so they flogged him off to Derby cheap. Silva would have been their best player by 100% & been worth much more money than when they signed him.
The is no comparison.
Absolute load of rubbish, I will never forget Kinkladze walking of the pitch crying after the Liverpool match, he was the shining light in one the worst team in our history. He put everything in that season.
Did his performances suffer the following two years, in a side struggling in the first division ...Yes. We will not be able to make the comparison with Silva, because I doubt any player would show us such loyalty.
Summed up perfectly.Shaelumstash said:I assume this thread is some kind of wind up?
Kinkladze was a penny in a sea of shite, whereas Silva is a genuine world class player who would make the starting line up of any club side in the world. It's like debating whether Goater is a better player than Aguero.
danburge82 said:I certainly wouldn't call the years under Brian Horton "dark years"! They were the best years of the 90's, better than finishing 5th twice, it was a right buzz under Horton as the games were exciting!
M18CTID said:franksinatra said:Neville Kneville said:The difference is that Silva plays football & works his bollox off, Gio had a bit of fun to entertain himself with a football & strolled around the pitch doing sweet f.a. the rest of the time.
Gio was signed by Ajax & not good enough for them so they flogged him off to Derby cheap. Silva would have been their best player by 100% & been worth much more money than when they signed him.
The is no comparison.
Absolute load of rubbish, I will never forget Kinkladze walking of the pitch crying after the Liverpool match, he was the shining light in one the worst team in our history. He put everything in that season.
Did his performances suffer the following two years, in a side struggling in the first division ...Yes. We will not be able to make the comparison with Silva, because I doubt any player would show us such loyalty.
It has to be Silva in all fairness.
However, I must admit that I too am a little baffled by this notion that Kinkladze was a lazy player. Sure, he drifted in and out of games at times, but there were plenty of occasions when hardly anybody else seemed to be putting much effort in either.
As you said, he had a tremendous first season in the Premier League, especially as we were a relatively poor side. He turned it on against plenty of the better sides in the division, running the game against title-chasers Newcastle in that 3-3 draw, and bossing the Elland Road pitch when we won 1-0 at Leeds, so for anyone to say he only ever did it against the lesser sides is a complete myth.
IIRC he was made the scapegoat after that awful 2-1 defeat at Port Vale when we were headed towards the third division and Joe Royle, in his infinite wisdom, decided to drop him for something like the next 9 or 10 games. I wouldn't mind but every other player was dogshit that day and the one player that could've dragged us out of the relegation mire was Kinky. Royle decided to recall him for the penultimate game at home to QPR by which time we'd dropped even further into the shit and while Kinkladze was banging in a first-minute free kick from 40 yards out, he had to watch on helplessly as we then conceded the 2 most laughable goals in the history of the universe. We managed to equalise in the second half but what should've been an utterly crucial 3 points and a comfortable victory ended up being a draw and none of it was Kinkladze's fault. As we know, the rest is history and we were relegated the following week despite beating Stoke 5-2. However, we ended the season a single point away from safety and no-one is ever going to convince me that we wouldn't have got it if Kinkladze hadn't been dropped for that run-in.
You are right, I don't claim to be a City fan. But I do understand why many City fans of your generation would feel an emotional attachment to Kinkladze, and indeed commend you for it.franksinatra said:The purpose of the title was provoking and to get a response (It worked) but as yet the thread has voted unaminously in favour of Silva.
Your comments sound like you are not a City fan (No problem with that) and so the emotional attachment many people feel to Kinkladze maybe difficult to understand, certainly to a generation of fans who had this point had probably never seen a truly gifted player represent the club.
At this time there were many shocking players at the club, with Gerry Creaney highlighting the mismangement which was at the core of our descent down the divisions. Swapping Paul Walsh for the services of a player with a clear weight issue was foolish to say the least. Creaney epitomised the bad management, hence being used as an example