Honestly who is/was better?

[franksinatra]

Take it your Mrs doesnt come on here then??!!!

Silva all day long. I remember Kinky very fondly but think over time I've over romanticised how good he actually was..........just a shining light in an otherwise awful era

I dont think you have in the first season in english football, he walked into the premier lge and took it by storm. A fantastic debut season in a struggling side. Will never forget the game against Newcastle the 3-3, when he single handedly destroyed them. Alan Hansen described his performance as "Incredible".

We never got to see the best out of him over a long period and he wont have the lasting impact of a Davis Silva unfortunately. The circumstances of the club were different.

That's why I would never judge a player just on one season, let alone on one match. The more I hear some City fans comments on KInkladze, the more my mind goes to George Best.

I remember watching George Best - almost certainly a better player than Kinkladze - "single-handedly" destroy Sheffield Wednesday at Hillsborough in the space of 15 minutes (and Man.U. won that game 3-1, all goals by Best - did City only draw 3-3 against Newcastle, despite Kinkladze?).

But was George Best really one of the greatest? Not in my book, even though he had more than one effective season - because he wasted the tremendous talent he had. A few years after the Hillsborough game, I saw Best playing for Fulham - alongside Rodney Marsh - and aside from a few tricks, he wasn't that effective.

Ajax clearly didn't in the end rate Kinkladze very highly.

In fairness no one has yet said Kinkladze is as good as Silva. The one season issue relates to the fact for us he only played one season in the prmeiership. I find it bemusing that Kinkladze gets criticised for his contribution the following seasons as a reflection of his ability. Kit Symons was a perfectly good centre half in the top flight and was shocking for the following two years. Whether its a mindset, lack of motivation or loss of confience playing in a struggling team.

Like I said I Silva was the better player, but I admired Kinkladze's breathtaking skill and the fact that in our darkest hour he never walked away from the club, when many other players wouLld

 

[whitt]

You have to remember the different times they both played in.

I think Kinky would have been brilliant in this team, the one he played in were two moves behind him 90% of the time.

I do think Silva is better, though your comment about 'should stop watching football' is arrogant to say the least, people are entitled to voice opinions, doesn't make yours better than theirs.

spot on Billy.... In those days Kinky was 'the shining light' by a mile. He was the one we came to see. Now we have many superstars... that is the difference.

The difference is that Silva plays football & works his bollox off, Gio had a bit of fun to entertain himself with a football & strolled around the pitch doing sweet f.a. the rest of the time.

Gio was signed by Ajax & not good enough for them so they flogged him off to Derby cheap. Silva would have been their best player by 100% & been worth much more money than when they signed him.

The is no comparison.

Bollocks. Silva is a class act, but it's easier to play well with better players around you, it ups your own game. Gio was playing through balls to Gerry Creany and having to run onto them himself.

 

[Frank H]

An ultimately disappointing career says everything about Gio's lack of application...but is not relevant to the skill + quality that he showed whilst playing for City.

Unlike Ali B + Berkovic...who were towards the end of their playing careers...Gio was at the peak of his game when he played for City...and bringing him to the club was one of the few positive things Frannie Lee achieved whilst in charge.

If you actually watch the whole clip of Gio's play...it is very difficult to come up with a list of players that can match that skill / burst of pace / dribbling ability / close control: Messi / Maradona / ?? / ??.

Of course Silva is a better team player / has a better work ethic / and is destined to have a far more memorable career than Gio...but Silva is also lucky to be surrounded by very talented players both with City + Spain.

p.s. on a different point, can someone explain to me why so many of the most "naturally" talented players (especially dribbling / close control etc) are left-footed: Maradona / Messi / Robben / Silva / Gio etc
(I think its something to do with the way the right-hand side of the brain..which controls the left-side of the body...works)

It may be because many "left-handers" are actually more "ambidextrous" than right-handers.

Note also the high proportion of top batsmen in cricket who have been/are lefties - much higher than the proportion of left-handers in the general population.

A remarkable case is Rafael Nadal, who is naturally a right-hander, but was coached from an early age to play left-handed, because his coach thought that the different angles of his shots would make him more effective against the majority of tennis players.

 

[franksinatra]

Yes David Silva is the better player but if you asked me which player I would prefer to watch it would be Kinkladze for me. Thats not a criticism of Silva just an appreciation of a footballer , whos drop of the shoulder, low centre of gravity, burst of speed, control of a football is only comparable in my eyes to Messi and Maradona.

You my friend, have talked the most sense on this debate. Almost word for word exactly what I was about to post. Some posters on here forget the magic that the "Dancer" could conjure up.

Ive said this before on Blue Moon, but at this time a friend made a video of Kinkladze for his dissertation at University to a background of Manchester music.

Its only a short video but reflects the brilliance of the man. Three highlights stick in the memory

Its kick off at the start of the second half, the commentator states "Its a kick off to manchester city, which is usually the cue for Georgiou Kinkladze to make a guinness book of record attempts at beating defenders" Kinkladze picks the ball up and walks around five challenges before his attempted cross is blocked.

Kinkladze stood imperiously on the touch line, with his foot resting on top of the ball, getting abuse from the fans behind him. A defending is literaaly jogging on the spot ready to charge, defender charges at Kinkladze, Kinkladze majectically spins and turns his back on the player, resulting in the defender falling to the ground. Ironic cheers from the City fans as Kinkladze walks off with the ball.

Kinkladze picks up the ball in the city half with man to man marker in tow, Kinkladze faces him up commits defender before skipping away from the challenge, surprisingly he doesnt sprint away letting the defnder recover his position, three times this happens before Kinkladze reaches the edge of the box, beats the hapless defender one more time, nutmegs his mate before screwing his shot wide. For me it was the greatest goal that never was

 

[dw7]

Two of the best players ever to wear a city shirt in my eyes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7BuNzATQsw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTCXJ6ncX4[/youtube]

no contest what so ever kinkladze a brilliant player in a shit side left and never heard of again after playing in a shit league

silva brilliant player in a brilliant side has done it in the best 2 leagues in the world

silva playes for the best country in the world

 

[dan.j.mcfc]

This thread has gotten well out of hand, people are actually comparing Kinkladze to the likes of Messi & Maradona. How is it possible to be so deluded? He couldn't hack at it Ajax and became an average at best, bit part player for a poor Derby side. He's about on par with Adel Taarabt at QPR, if you play him at any higher level he would be well out of his depth and like Taarabt, Kinkladze would go missing for 70/80% of the game!

 

[Frank H]

I dont think you have in the first season in english football, he walked into the premier lge and took it by storm. A fantastic debut season in a struggling side. Will never forget the game against Newcastle the 3-3, when he single handedly destroyed them. Alan Hansen described his performance as "Incredible".

We never got to see the best out of him over a long period and he wont have the lasting impact of a Davis Silva unfortunately. The circumstances of the club were different.

That's why I would never judge a player just on one season, let alone on one match. The more I hear some City fans comments on KInkladze, the more my mind goes to George Best.

I remember watching George Best - almost certainly a better player than Kinkladze - "single-handedly" destroy Sheffield Wednesday at Hillsborough in the space of 15 minutes (and Man.U. won that game 3-1, all goals by Best - did City only draw 3-3 against Newcastle, despite Kinkladze?).

But was George Best really one of the greatest? Not in my book, even though he had more than one effective season - because he wasted the tremendous talent he had. A few years after the Hillsborough game, I saw Best playing for Fulham - alongside Rodney Marsh - and aside from a few tricks, he wasn't that effective.

Ajax clearly didn't in the end rate Kinkladze very highly.

In fairness no one has yet said Kinkladze is as good as Silva. The one season issue relates to the fact for us he only played one season in the prmeiership. I find it bemusing that Kinkladze gets criticised for his contribution the following seasons as a reflection of his ability. Kit Symons was a perfectly good centre half in the top flight and was shocking for the following two years. Whether its a mindset, lack of motivation or loss of confience playing in a struggling team.

Like I said I Silva was the better player, but I admired Kinkladze's breathtaking skill and the fact that in our darkest hour he never walked away from the club, when many other players wouLld

They have!!! In fact, what is all this emphasis on the "shite", (Gerry Creaney etc.) which surrounded Kinkladze saying, but suggesting that Kinky would have been as good, or better, than Silva in the present team?

I appreciate that many City fans have fond memories of Kinkladze, a shining light in a dark era, and emotional ties to those memories - and commend them for their loyalty to their memories and to himself.

However I feel some of this rather downplays Silva's contributions to the present team. Yes, he is surrounded by much better players than Kinkladze, but so is Messi at Barca, and I've rarely seen that mentioned by all the Messi worshippers who abound on this and other football forums.

And Kinkladze wasn't surrounded by "shite" at Ajax.

 

[colourmeblue]

no contest what so ever kinkladze a brilliant player in a shit side left and never heard of again after playing in a shit league

never heard of again but will never be forgotten, a player whose breathtaking skill was matched only by the selflessness and dedication he showed towards our club

 

[tonea2003]

silva no contest

bang on,

 

[Frank H]

Yes David Silva is the better player but if you asked me which player I would prefer to watch it would be Kinkladze for me. Thats not a criticism of Silva just an appreciation of a footballer , whos drop of the shoulder, low centre of gravity, burst of speed, control of a football is only comparable in my eyes to Messi and Maradona.

You my friend, have talked the most sense on this debate. Almost word for word exactly what I was about to post. Some posters on here forget the magic that the "Dancer" could conjure up.

Ive said this before on Blue Moon, but at this time a friend made a video of Kinkladze for his dissertation at University to a background of Manchester music.

Its only a short video but reflects the brilliance of the man. Three highlights stick in the memory

Its kick off at the start of the second half, the commentator states "Its a kick off to manchester city, which is usually the cue for Georgiou Kinkladze to make a guinness book of record attempts at beating defenders" Kinkladze picks the ball up and walks around five challenges before his attempted cross is blocked.

Kinkladze stood imperiously on the touch line, with his foot resting on top of the ball, getting abuse from the fans behind him. A defending is literaaly jogging on the spot ready to charge, defender charges at Kinkladze, Kinkladze majectically spins and turns his back on the player, resulting in the defender falling to the ground. Ironic cheers from the City fans as Kinkladze walks off with the ball.

Kinkladze picks up the ball in the city half with man to man marker in tow, Kinkladze faces him up commits defender before skipping away from the challenge, surprisingly he doesnt sprint away letting the defnder recover his position, three times this happens before Kinkladze reaches the edge of the box, beats the hapless defender one more time, nutmegs his mate before screwing his shot wide. For me it was the greatest goal that never was

All this only reinforces the impression I have been getting, possibly unfairly, that Kinkladze was a showboating trickster, effective in a poor team against poor opposition, but found wanting when long-term application is needed in a good side (Ajax) at a high level. A sort of third class Cristiano Ronaldo, who, whatever you think of him as a person, has proved that even a trick pony can hack it at the highest level.

As I said, this impression I am getting of Kinky may be very unfair, but it's actually his supporters on this forum who are giving me that impression!