How can people still be negative about mancini?

[bobmcfc]

"All he did was what I expected for spending that amount of cash"

That's pretty much the nub of the argument.

Also, worth pointing out that Mancini is currently at loggerheads with Cook and Marwood because he wants another 100 million plus to spend this summer. Talk about a cheque book manager...

Evidence for this? With a number of players out on loan and presumably on the "for sale" list along with others then we need a similar number of incoming, with the quality of the players we will need (and prices we get charged as soon as they see it's City knocking at the door) then I'm not surprised it's £100m. Our side for tonight is looking a bit weak but should be good enough for Stoke with possibly Tevez, Balo, Silva, Barry & Yaya being out leaves us a bit vulnerable.

Or shall we buy a few bargain basement like Bebe, Obertan etc (wouldn't mind a mushy pea thou). maybe we should grab Carlton Cole for £4m or some others from the relegated sides.....

I can't fathom the people who seemingly are so soft in the centre that they can't handle having their own perceptions of Mancini challenged. He's done some good things and some bad things as manager - but ultimately he's met the targets that were set him. He's got to be praised for that. But that isn't going to change the perception many of us have that he's massively overrated and as you quote above, has done what was expected after the money spent.

I don't understand the massively overrated. We have stopped shipping in goals for fun, we have conceded the 2nd least amount of goals in the PL, our GD is the 4th best in the PL, we are 4th with a good shout at 3rd place, Joe Hart has broken a clean sheet record this season that was set in League 1 and we have won the FA Cup in his first full season in charge. Spurs and Liverpool have each spent over £250m in the last 5-6 years, the manager(s) still have to buy the right players and also getting them playing together. You don't get to where we are by just spashing the cash and not doing anything else.

If the expectation is that all those who didn't rate Mancini two weeks ago are going to suddenly flip flop because the arse has fallen out of Spurs and Arsenal's season, and we've won the FA Cup, then that expectation is misguided.

Look at that from the other angle, the arse hasn't fallen out of our season whilst it did at 2 other clubs challenging for the top 4. Naturally this has nothing to do with the manager or players at City, it's all to do with the managers/players at those other teams.

The Mancini out brigade seem to be happy to jump on any bad run of form by the team by blaming it all on the manager (plus the occasional players) yet not happy to give him any credit when we are on a good run of form.

To my mind you can't have it both ways, if we are doing crap then according to a few posters it is because Mancini is crap, yet when we are doing well it's down to.....err, not sure, maybe the gods of football because it can't possibly be Mancini doing a good job because he is overrated, boring, defensive etc.......

You see I managed to write that entire post without calling anyone a clown, without foaming at the mouth, and most importantly, without trying to make out that I'm a bigger Blue than anyone else...

Foaming...nope, bigger blue..nope, not that either - clowns is probably a bit harsh but misguided definitely.

Managers at the end of the day continue to be employed or sacked dependent on their success (or lack of it) and their ability to hit the expected targets. Possible 3rd place in PL (definite 4th), FA Cup winners, CL guaranteed next season. I'm pretty sure the senior team at City are buzzing as much as the fans and looking on this as a successful season. I bet there are some nice, fat bonuses being dished out in a few weeks time.

Mancini will be judged again at the end of next season, I am sure of that just like every other manager in football is. When the City board decide Mancini isn't up to the job then he will get the sack, like any other non-performing manager.

I find it so difficult to understand why, after our most succesful season in 40 years or so, people are still banging on about the manager not being good enough.

I think your post says it all. spot on really.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Here's a point for the people who are criticising Mancini's style of play.

Mancini's job, when he came here, was to get us results. Anything less and he would have been sacked. Surely when you are trying to build a team capable of winning the biggest titles in Europe you make them into winners first. You have to lay the foundations before you build the house. Mancini's style is about getting us the initial results. I'm of the opinion that once he's got them then the style will naturally improve as the players become more comfortable with the system whilst having the winning mentality.

Results now, everything else later.

We can't go out playing like Barcelona and expect to turn over teams when we have an inferior club mentality, it just wouldn't work.

It's not his style of play which has bothered my hugely since he came. It's his decision making and leadership on an ongoing basis

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Why is it so wrong to have an opinion that isn't fawning or completely uncritical?

We've won the FA Cup and I was in tears at the final whistle. Not because, as some on here would have it, that I was gutted that he'd won something but because I was pleased.

But if we strip away the emotion we struggled to beat 3 lower league teams and then beat a Premiership team that wasn't remotely interested. The semi was our first real test and we didn't turn up until 25 minutes in and could easily have been a couple down. Then we played well for the rest of the game.

But just 5 days before that game we were completely abject at Anfield. Since then we let Everton off the hook after being in total control.

So that's why some of us still doubt whether he really has the ability to take us all the way to a title and CL.

Saturday was the first time that we completely controlled a game for 90 minutes and if we carry on like that the doubts will disappear.

So while I'm thrilled about an FA Cup and CL qualification, I'm looking at next season, when we won't be able to rely on teams around us self-destructing and will have to raise the bar far more than we have this season. 70 points will not be good enough come May 2012.

I'm still not fully convinced Mancini can deliver that vital improvement but I'd be delighted to be proved wrong.

i agree in some part with what you say regarding the 3 lower league teams and even the comment about liverpool and everton, the latter to a lesser degree.

but if you for one minute thought united let us off because they didnt really give a shit about an fa cup final derby game that we contolled from the 31 st minute when barry had that shot into the side netting, i think you are sadly kidding yourself.

we have, in the last few weeks been stepping over the finish line in must win games, something i havent seen a city team do for years. hopefully now we can press on and have belief we are as good if not better than the teams that are around the top of the league.

self belief being the vital ingredient that has been missing for so long but that can be so ellusive

 

[OrigamiNinja]

I have been a Mancini outer for a few months BUT at this moment in time he is untouchable. 4th was the minimum requirement and he has achieved that and added the FA Cup to boot.

It is due to the next set of objectives though that I have been a Mancini outer. For me 4th was always nailed on this season (I thought with our squad we should have nailed it last season but thats going over old ground) so it wasnt my concern about not reaching CL qualification that I wanted rid. The next objective will be to seriously challenge for/win the title and this is where I still have my doubts. Can we win the title with Mancini in charge? I hope so, for me he keeps his job and gets his opportunity for a crack at the next set of objectives but I wouldnt be surprised at all if we are all having similar conversations on here in 12 months time.

 

[Anonymous]

Evidence for this? With a number of players out on loan and presumably on the "for sale" list along with others then we need a similar number of incoming, with the quality of the players we will need (and prices we get charged as soon as they see it's City knocking at the door) then I'm not surprised it's £100m. Our side for tonight is looking a bit weak but should be good enough for Stoke with possibly Tevez, Balo, Silva, Barry & Yaya being out leaves us a bit vulnerable.

Or shall we buy a few bargain basement like Bebe, Obertan etc (wouldn't mind a mushy pea thou). maybe we should grab Carlton Cole for £4m or some others from the relegated sides.....

To be honest i was just making the point that Mancini's a cheque book manager. I think it's hard to dispute that when you see the sums he spent at Inter and what he's spent here at City.

I don't understand the massively overrated. We have stopped shipping in goals for fun, we have conceded the 2nd least amount of goals in the PL, our GD is the 4th best in the PL, we are 4th with a good shout at 3rd place, Joe Hart has broken a clean sheet record this season that was set in League 1 and we have won the FA Cup in his first full season in charge. Spurs and Liverpool have each spent over £250m in the last 5-6 years, the manager(s) still have to buy the right players and also getting them playing together. You don't get to where we are by just spashing the cash and not doing anything else.

You state so much in that paragraph but I'll try and address it all. What Mancini has achieved I don't view through the prism of "Hughes is shit and Mancini's better". I see him having the same pressures Mou had when he arrived at Chelsea ie. a top class squad of footballers who are expected to go and win things. Conceding fewer goals than anyone is no surprise when we've played 90% of our games this season with one of the world's top goal keepers, four defenders, two, sometimes three 'sitting' midfield players. Essentially SIX players 'covering'.

At the same time though, we often struggled to break teams down. We dropped countless silly points because teams would park the bus and Mancini's dogmatic belief in one system meant that rarely (up until the last six weeks) would he change things. Just different players, but the same pattern of play. Unimaginative and unprepared IMO. Top managers - guys like Wenger, Slur Alex, Mou, et al have players coached to play different systems and are capable of adapting based on their opposition. The Everton match is a great example. Moyes changed things at half time, and Mancini just sat on his hands and watched them fight their way back into the match without doing anything to counter that.

It may seem that I'm nit picking, but titles are won and lost in games like that. I want to know we have a man in charge capable of changing the course of a match which is running away from us.

Look at that from the other angle, the arse hasn't fallen out of our season whilst it did at 2 other clubs challenging for the top 4. Naturally this has nothing to do with the manager or players at City, it's all to do with the managers/players at those other teams.

The Mancini out brigade seem to be happy to jump on any bad run of form by the team by blaming it all on the manager (plus the occasional players) yet not happy to give him any credit when we are on a good run of form.

Point taken, I accept it can be viewed like that - but I also believe we have a much better squad than Spurs and Arsenal. We have much better players, most of whom have been together nearly two years now. No reason why we shouldn't be comfortably finishing in front of both of those sides rather than rejoicing at Arsenal fumbling at the final hurdle.

Managers at the end of the day continue to be employed or sacked dependent on their success (or lack of it) and their ability to hit the expected targets. Possible 3rd place in PL (definite 4th), FA Cup winners, CL guaranteed next season. I'm pretty sure the senior team at City are buzzing as much as the fans and looking on this as a successful season. I bet there are some nice, fat bonuses being dished out in a few weeks time.

Mancini will be judged again at the end of next season, I am sure of that just like every other manager in football is. When the City board decide Mancini isn't up to the job then he will get the sack, like any other non-performing manager.

I find it so difficult to understand why, after our most succesful season in 40 years or so, people are still banging on about the manager not being good enough.

Mate, I'm buzzing, never mind anyone else...I really am. And you're right, when the board see fit, Mancini will go. But I also think that our two different sets of opinions can coexist without one side needing to prove the other side wrong...

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I have been negative at times about Mancini this season as you will know. I have concerns about his record in big games, his man management skills and about the quality of some of his signings.

I am however very grateful to him for delivering that cup to us on Saturday.

After that day and the feeling that both the Semi and Final provided, I cant see how anyone gets more excited about finishing 4th.

I accept that its vital for the club etc etc but as a fan, nothing competes with Saturday. I dont think anything will ever beat that first cup for me regardless of what we achieve.

But anyway, well done Mancini for both the cup and for finishing top 4.

 

[bluemoondays]

We've been superb in some games this season and yes, pants, in others.

We completely dominated Stoke in the FA Cup final and we've done that for long periods in a lot of games this year.

The next step is to extend those periods to a full match, players to stop thinking they can take the foot off when we go 1 or 2 - nil up. I'm pretty sure Mancini doesn't tell the squad to all sit within 5 yards of our penalty area when we go 1-0 up (apart from maybe the last 10 minutes).

I believe a lot of those games where we came under the cosh it was a lack of belief from the players or it was them subconsciously easing up thinking it was job done. I'm hoping some of the recent games will give them that belief and drive that they can dominate games for 90 minutes, we can go for the throat and get 1, 2, or 3 goals more when we are 2-0 up.

Until we get that drive for 90 minutes that the scum (unfortunately) show and probably Chelsea and a few others we will always struggle to hang on wich is a crying shame and needs to be eradicated,

 

[SamTheGuru]

I personally think Mancini has done a brilliant job since he has come and is truly a top drawer manager. Since he has arrived he has done the following:

Defence - Our defence was an absolute shambles before Mancini came in. We were leaking goals left, right and centre and our inability to hold on to a lead against average and mediocre sides was absolutely pathetic. He is a brilliant tutor to all of the players and teaches them where to be positionally more than anything else and how to actually hold a shape. If people remember back to when Les was in charge, think how often the left back or right back would go missing, or get drawn into a position that they should not be in. This has been almost completely eliminated now by the way we have set up. He turned us into a solid unit that rarely concedes and this is step 1 to building a powerhouse of a team. United and Chelsea of previous years have had this in place and we now have it.

Player Development - He seems really interested and takes joy in developing and guiding young players. We can see this with what has happened to Richards, Hart and AJ. Although it is yet to fully pay off with AJ. He brought in Vieira for the sole purpose of having that extra dressing room pressence and that level head to guide the younger players. As we have just seen recently in an interview, Mancini is going to block Weiss from returning to Rangers for another year and try and get him a loan in a more competitive league. This shows that Mancini takes responsibility and is willing to guide players from the top right down to the bottom. Another move was giving Tevez the armband which has without a doubt developed him even more so.

Sucking out the poison - Although leaving us with a slightly depleted squad as it stand, Mancini has manage to filter out all the poison within our team to the point where we have a team that fully respects the manager. Don't go thinking that it is a coincedence that all reports of dressing room unrest and the like have stopped over recent months. Kidd has also described in a recent interview that Mancini is really insistant that his player's have a hunger to suceed and want to take part and if they are not interested then they can leave.

Winning mentality - Mancini has installed a never say die attitude to the team. A team that competes up until the last moment of the game. We now seem to take joy/pride when playing keep ball as opposed to trying to rush up the pitch when we need to be defending a lead. The entire team is 10 times more committed than it has been in the past. We now know how to have those scrappy wins that we have never had in the past. When we are 1 nil up against crappy teams and we need to see the game out we now shut up shop. Even if it meant playing 2 left backs like we did in his early days, it is very effective.

I could go on and on.

Oh and we are on course for automatic qualification for the champion's league and have recently won silverware.

 

[glen quagmire]

DAVE, cheers for ignoring the question. It went totally unnoticed i promise!

 

[Nascent Blues]

The team that Mancini has put together, our style of play and the experiences and knowledge gained from playing as a team are all at the embryonic stage of development; City are not, or anywhere near the finished article. This, for me, is the ‘nub’ of argument.
People keep on about how the amount of money spent by us should immediately garner results and rewards. It has: a top 4 finish and an FA Cup.
If it was as easy to finish first as spending a shit load of cash then it would be pointless to even enter the Champions League as Real Madrid, the side that’s spunked shed loads of the filth lucre to come third these last three seasons, would hands down win the final every year.
A pastime which gives me pleasure is pondering and musing on how this team is going to develop, how it is going to grow and mature over the next few years. Our style of play has been a means to an end this season, with some great and not so great performances. However, I can’t think of a single manager, including Wenger, Pep or Mourhino who would have turned a club that finished 10th in 2008/9 season into the Harlem Globetrotters of world football, blowing all and sundry away before us.
The thing that I find puzzling is not that fans want they perceive to be what’s best for the club, but that they can’t seem to see past one performance, one player having a nightmare, one manager who has, and still will make mistakes. Any occurrence of something negative, on or off the pitch, is seen as proof that all’s not well, that Mancini is ultimately to blame, that we’re going backwards. Any success is however is not his, it’s because of the money and any manager of any worth would have at least achieved what we have. I personally think that’s bollocks.
I believe Mancini is creating a wonderful narrative that people will look back on in years gone by and give him credit for. I am quite looking forward to living that narrative, to turning the pages on a daily, weekly and monthly basis.
I like to read the whole of a book in order to see how the story develops. I think some of our fans, because of our limited success in recent years, would rather turn to the last page to find out what happened. I think that’s a pity.