How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[Bigga]

I would have thought it’s quite obvious.
If you write something that doesn’t sit well with the left on the politics threads you risk being gagged on that thread or even worse banned, by those who are admin.
Others can swear, insult or abuse at anyone they don’t agree with and no action is taken against them, which is clearly against the rules of the forum , if you care to read them.
It’s a case of double standards.
Little wonder many stay well clear and leave certain posters to just get on with it.

You're not the only one.

Myself, on the left, say things that don't sit well with the neolibs and I suffer the same fate as you.

I stated war is bad on the Ukraine thread and found myself banned. Nothing that contravened CoC, just not a supporter of war.

It's a dumb rule, whatever it is.

 

[stonerblue]

Well, that’s bollocks. Political decisions affect everyone. Creating the NHS, introducing pensions, or even Brexit (staying on topic). Political decisions impact peoples lives for good or ill and can last for generations.

Told him that weeks ago but he's not having it. He lives in a special world where politics doesn't affect anything.

 

[meltonblue]

My perspective is somewhat different to many who voted to remain. I felt, once the vote was made we simply had to leave. To not do so would have torn the country apart. I also personally felt that leaving would be significantly more challenging than most people who voted leave had even begun to contemplate. I don’t think that makes me Nostradamus btw, I just didn’t see how it was possible to uncouple from such an arrangement without huge complications and inconvenience; a multi-lateral agreement spanning half a century is not akin to a golf club membership and I am still astonished that anyone believed it would be, which many who voted leave plainly did.

That said, given the vote, I don’t think it was a mistake to leave. We needed to try and make the most of it and get it out of our system as a nation, and unfortunately, but inevitably, it needs to get worse as part of that process, possibly for a number of years.

At the end of that, I expect us to rejoin, possibly at the expense of the pound and definitely and the expense of our national standing and dignity. I think we will be allowed to rejoin, but only when we’ve been put in our place and display an appropriate level of contrition. The process will hopefully serve as a salutary lesson to our hubris as a nation which caused us to self-harm in such a profound way.

We needed to lance the boil. It’s unfortunate it will come at such a high price but life is about making decisions and living with their consequences, and as a nation, we need to own this one.

All we witness today is as a consequence of the vote to leave. It is absolutely what we voted for and anyone who suggests otherwise hasn’t yet woken up to reality.

I’d say that’s pretty much spot on. The question now is how long and how much damage will be done before we start to change tact. There’s a lot that has to happen before we do, including some very big realisations of where we are as a country right now.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Sorry to ask and I know it's a big no no but how old are you halfmoist.? Not having a go at all but just trying to understand your pov.

 

[Gabriel]

At the end of that, I expect us to rejoin, possibly at the expense of the pound and definitely and the expense of our national standing and dignity. I think we will be allowed to rejoin, but only when we’ve been put in our place and display an appropriate level of contrition. The process will hopefully serve as a salutary lesson to our hubris as a nation which caused us to self-harm in such a profound way.

I'm sure the EU would welcome the UK or England back into the fold at a later date, but my only concern is whether there would be an appetite in England for such a move.

The economic pain that will now be experienced will be similar to the economic pain suffered during the 1950s and 1960s and which pulled the UK to work more closely with its European partners. Similarly, their growing economies and levels of productivity at that time gave them an advantage that the UK could only match by joining, so in 5-10 years that scenario will likely be repeated.

A major difference between then and now, however, is that the political leadership and public then had gone through the war, many of them serving in Europe, so they had first-hand experience not only of living on the continent but of seeing what collaboration in Europe could achieve. Now, by contrast, there is a generation of political leaders who are explicitly or implicitly hostile to Europe, and the next generation of political leaders and the public will have been raised in a culture whose media continues to stoke Euroscepticism and where access to European life (beyond holidays) has largely been denied them.

 

[blueparrot]

You're not the only one.

Myself, on the left, say things that don't sit well with the neolibs and I suffer the same fate as you.

I stated war is bad on the Ukraine thread and found myself banned. Nothing that contravened CoC, just not a supporter of war.

It's a dumb rule, whatever it is.

Yes, because it's well known Ric and the mods are all war mongers and will ban anyone that thinks war is bad.

 

[Bigga]

Yes, because it's well known Ric and the mods are all war mongers and will ban anyone that thinks war is bad.

I only posted what is true.

To this day, I have no idea why I'm banned cos no one ever tells you.

Maybe, it could be that I suggested Ukraine cannot win that war? Either way, either one of those comments got me banned because I upset somebody.

 

[west didsblue]

I only posted what is true.

To this day, I have no idea why I'm banned cos no one ever tells you.

Maybe, it could be that I suggested Ukraine cannot win that war? Either way, either one of those comments got me banned because I upset somebody.

If you're that bothered why don't you PM Ric and ask rather than whining about it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Going well

Firms warn time is running out to save UK economy

More help is needed for companies struggling with rising costs, the boss of a business lobby group says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BobKowalski]

I'm sure the EU would welcome the UK or England back into the fold at a later date, but my only concern is whether there would be an appetite in England for such a move.

The economic pain that will now be experienced will be similar to the economic pain suffered during the 1950s and 1960s and which pulled the UK to work more closely with its European partners. Similarly, their growing economies and levels of productivity at that time gave them an advantage that the UK could only match by joining, so in 5-10 years that scenario will likely be repeated.

A major difference between then and now, however, is that the political leadership and public then had gone through the war, many of them serving in Europe, so they had first-hand experience not only of living on the continent but of seeing what collaboration in Europe could achieve. Now, by contrast, there is a generation of political leaders who are explicitly or implicitly hostile to Europe, and the next generation of political leaders and the public will have been raised in a culture whose media continues to stoke Euroscepticism and where access to European life (beyond holidays) has largely been denied them.

I’m not convinced EU nations will welcome the UK back. We are too divided on the issue and given our lack of commitment when we were members and our ongoing divide, there is no upside to the EU for having the UK back.

From the EU perspective, it is much preferable to keep the UK within the EU economic orbit, but parked on the outside politically. We have struggled to figure out our place in Europe since the 1950’s and everything we have tried from creating an EU alternative (EFTA), to helping reshape the EU with the creation of Single Market and its eastward expansion has ended in failure for the UK, even if other European nations have (ironically) benefited from our efforts.

The UK is the master of bad timing. We could have joined the EEC at the beginning but didn’t, then spent a decade trying to get in, then spent several decades pushing an economic agenda and trying to fight a political agenda (except you can’t have one without the other), decided (narrowly) to quit and then got hit with Covid and the Ukraine war, both events which saw the EU beginning to take actions in its own right. Actions that the UK would likely have resisted.

The real point of Brexit for Brexiteers was to break the EU, as Brexit cannot work otherwise. Instead, events have strengthened the EU and the UK’s absence has in some ways helped this process.

Funny old world.