How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[East Level 2]

Actually we joined in 1973 without a referendum. The 1975 referendum was to confirm that we wanted to stay in it.

Correct. I remember the date of the 1975 referendum clearly as it was my 18th birthday.

 

[East Level 2]

How many would take EFTA membership today, I ask myself.

Could have sorted this six years ago but reasoned debate was never on the cards, just vitriolic verbiage.

There was never going to be reasoned debate when simplistic phrases such as oven-ready deal, taking back control, and £350 million a week to the NHS had been used to win the vote. Negotiating a new deal was always going to be a thankless task after that.

 

[Metal Biker]

There was never going to be reasoned debate when simplistic phrases such as oven-ready deal, taking back control, and £350 million a week to the NHS had been used to win the vote. Negotiating a new deal was always going to be a thankless task after that.

Yet few if any on the remain side of the debate were willing to engage in the discussion of rejoining the EFTA. Instead it was all about remaining in the EU, when everyone saw it was a heavily controversial stance in the wake of what was seen as a public vote of opinion. The 'soft' brexit option was debated for about a few months at best and then became a soundbite in later discussions as everything became toxic, calling those who voted to leave stupid, racist, xenophobic etc, and everyone's stances hardened to be wholly for or against.

 

[meltonblue]

Yet few if any on the remain side of the debate were willing to engage in the discussion of rejoining the EFTA. Instead it was all about remaining in the EU, when everyone saw it was a heavily controversial stance in the wake of what was seen as a public vote of opinion. The 'soft' brexit option was debated for about a few months at best and then became a soundbite in later discussions as everything became toxic, calling those who voted to leave stupid, racist, xenophobic etc, and everyone's stances hardened to be wholly for or against.

As soon as the referendum was done, I was really hoping for an efta deal, I thought that was the best option that aligned with a 52/48 split in the electorate. The narrative domestically changed a lot though, those that were pushing it as a potential option on the leave side turned it into a “not proper Brexit” offering and a lot on the remain side spent way too long trying to overturn it from the start.

It was a binary choice to stay or leave but people weren’t binary in their reasons for choosing it and subsequently how they’d have liked it to have been delivered. Whatever side people initially voted in the referendum, I don’t think anyone would disagree that the last six years since it and how it’s been dealt with is a clusterfuck. Rather than being a proper debate and consideration, the whole thing has regressed our political discourse across the board.

 

[Metal Biker]

As soon as the referendum was done, I was really hoping for an efta deal, I thought that was the best option that aligned with a 52/48 split in the electorate. The narrative domestically changed a lot though, those that were pushing it as a potential option on the leave side turned it into a “not proper Brexit” offering and a lot on the remain side spent way too long trying to overturn it from the start.

It was a binary choice to stay or leave but people weren’t binary in their reasons for choosing it and subsequently how they’d have liked it to have been delivered. Whatever side people initially voted in the referendum, I don’t think anyone would disagree that the last six years since it and how it’s been dealt with is a clusterfuck. Rather than being a proper debate and consideration, the whole thing has regressed our political discourse across the board.

Its what I was advocating for before and after the referendum and still do. You can't be in both, so I opted for a decision that would put us on a path towards it. I was never on the side of the 'not proper brexit', because I despise the term; a little soundbite for politicians and journalists to stoke up fervour.

Leaving was leaving, but there was nothing to stop us making choices that kept many of the things the nation wanted to keep whilst ditching the things many were opposed to, something EFTA offered and the EU even recommended to the UK. Continued tariff-free trade in exchange for freedom of movement of people. Yes to Single Market access, no to the Customs Union (because the EFTA does not advocate for one, nor wants it). They were the compromises, ones many would accept on both sides, but we all saw how the debate turned out when the more "passionate" took over the discussion.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Yet few if any on the remain side of the debate were willing to engage in the discussion of rejoining the EFTA

Are you a scouser?

Brexit was always going to be a hard Brexit and EFTA was never going to happen.

It’s some cheek to blame others for something you have more responsibility for.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Are you a scouser?

Brexit was always going to be a hard Brexit and EFTA was never going to happen.

It’s some cheek to blame others for something you have more responsibility for.

Always the victims. It's never their fault. It's simply not the Brexit they voted for. Haven't you heard?

 

[joe123]

Its what I was advocating for before and after the referendum and still do. You can't be in both, so I opted for a decision that would put us on a path towards it. I was never on the side of the 'not proper brexit', because I despise the term; a little soundbite for politicians and journalists to stoke up fervour.

Leaving was leaving, but there was nothing to stop us making choices that kept many of the things the nation wanted to keep whilst ditching the things many were opposed to, something EFTA offered and the EU even recommended to the UK. Continued tariff-free trade in exchange for freedom of movement of people. Yes to Single Market access, no to the Customs Union (because the EFTA does not advocate for one, nor wants it). They were the compromises, ones many would accept on both sides, but we all saw how the debate turned out when the more "passionate" took over the discussion.

I remember you being strongly in favour of it, and in hindsight it does look the sensible option, but to be honest other than yourself I don’t remember anyone of note talking about it in the mainstream. I’m not sure the politics sun forum carries the weight over political discourse we think it does :)

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Are you a scouser?

Brexit was always going to be a hard Brexit and EFTA was never going to happen.

It’s some cheek to blame others for something you have more responsibility for.

Wile the leave campaigns were saying all things to all people one thing was clear. They were the worst of our political class. Liars and arseholes. Anyone voting for Brexit made a massive error in assuming these people had any good intentions. The shit show was inevitable.

 

[Metal Biker]

I remember you being strongly in favour of it, and in hindsight it does look the sensible option, but to be honest other than yourself I don’t remember anyone of note talking about it in the mainstream. I’m not sure the politics sun forum carries the weight over political discourse we think it does :)

I'd have had us join up straightaway. But people heard "soft brexit" and thought it the 'weaker' option and I remember it was barely discussed or pooh-pooh'd by those favouring "hard" brexit or remaining.