How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

The perfect fumble said:
Rejoining is inevitable... then bish, bash, bosh! We rejoin, ten years from now at the earliest.
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That's the rub though isn't it ( and I'd say 20 years minimum, and the NI border question has to be resolved first).

Which politician is going to dedicate their campaign to something that won't happen in the next mandate period, or the next, or even the one after that?

What do you do in the mean time? Just let thins get slowly worse? The UK gradually deflating of the coat of France like a lilo with a hole in it? UK Politicians have to make the UK economy work if they will have any chance of re-entering the EU on reasonable terms, and if the economy recovers, whats the driving force to rejoin?
 
blueish swede said:
Which politician is going to dedicate their campaign to something that won't happen in the next mandate period, or the next, or even the one after that?
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That's why no politician will and that's why Starmer won't, remember "no top down".

blueish swede said:
What do you do in the mean time? Just let thins get slowly worse? The UK gradually deflating of the coat of France like a lilo with a hole in it? UK Politicians have to make the UK economy work if they will have any chance of re-entering the EU on reasonable terms, and if the economy recovers, whats the driving force to rejoin?
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Let's see if I fully understand you, we need to get our economy in shape, and in order do that we need to get back into the EU, but to get back into the EU we need to get our economy in shape, but if we get our economy in shape there's no point in going back into the EU.

I think that's a logical fallacy? Or is it a circular argument? Either way I'm confused.
 
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The other factor to consider is what the UK will potentially be joining in say ten years time. The EU has already changed in that it now raises funds, has taken on health competences, and sent military aid to Ukraine in its own right. Enlargement is back on the agenda as is greater integration.

Our absence (ironically) has helped these trends, but the organisation we left will not be the same organisation we look to join.

I still think we will end up in the Norway, Switzerland camp and never leave. Economically tied to the EU, but with minimal political influence. Ireland will have a bigger say in the political shaping of Europe then we ever will.
 
aguero93:20 said:
Leave them as they are bar the North. Maybe some bilateral federation with an independent Scotland.
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Fair enough.
Sadds for Prez.
A bilateral federation?
Sadds be ready for an influx of Ulster Scots Presbyterians.
There’s no way they’ll have anything to do with us, bilateral or not.
 
The perfect fumble said:
Rejoining is inevitable.

Once you accept that it's a matter of how.

Starmer is preparing the ground, he's going to allow EU citizens resident here to vote and he's going to lower the voting age, and on the quiet he'll encourage a fringe Labour rejoin group to steer the narrative, while retaining plausible deniability that it's nowt to do with him.

Simultaneously he'll be exploring closer ties to the EU, which will throw up a number of possible scenarios, an entirely predictable by-product of which will be the bleedin obvious, the simple fact that none of these halfway house options is better than rejoining, so rejoining will surreptitiously re-enter political discourse.

Old folk die off, youngsters join the electorate, Brexit is shown to be the disaster it is to all but the terminally mad. Starmer will let it all simmer, there'll be no top down, he wants pressure to build from below, then bish, bash, bosh! We rejoin, ten years from now at the earliest.
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If we do it will be all or nothing.

Schengen/Euro etc.


The people that voted out didn't understand the balance we had in our membership. That will be all gone and we'll have to accept being a third tier member and the nuts and bolts that come with it. No cherry picking.
 
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TinFoilHat said:
If we do it will be all or nothing.

Schengen/Euro etc.


The people that voted out didn't understand the balance we had in our membership. That will be all gone and we'll have to accept being a third year member and the nuts and bolts that come with it. No cherry picking.
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Maybe you're right, a lot depends on the zeitgeist among the other members when we want to come back.

We know where we are now, who knows where we'll be come the day.
 
I voted out, for several reasons. Sadly none of these have been implemented by this government. I voted out for greater uk independence on tax rates, the ability for the uk to encourage external investment which hasn’t happened and greater internal investment, which also hasn't happened. I wanted reasonable controls on immigration, not no immigration, this hasn't happened, as we only let in people who we wont let work ie illegal immigrants. Lots of labour shortages across all uk industry sectors have contributed to massive increases in wage inflation.

I still believe that we could have left the EU better than we have, but was probably naive in thinking the UK government were capable of negotiating this. I was touch and go in making up my original decision , but now think if given a choice again and with hindsight of how we have left I would vote to stay, as the benefits I thought we would gain in leaving haven't been implemented.

I'm not sure whether how much of this feeling is down to my disenchantment with this government ?
 
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