How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[journolud]

It’s interesting to note the little argument that is left. Either it’s been implemented wrong or it’s turned into whataboutery or sarcasm. I sometimes miss @mcfc1632 (if that was his number). At least you would get some original thought even if it was bonkers.

Original thought? Maybe once and then repeated ad nauseum

 

[mat]

Lets not forget though Corbyn, and the opposition parties in general along with the ousted tory rebels actually had a majority in parliament in 2019 and could with compromise changed the Brexit we had. That chance was thrown away with a refusal to compromise and work together because they wanted a GE. Blame for that though can probably be spread around.

The Lib Dems (Well their leader) let their personal issues with Corbyn overtake their role as a parliamentarian. We could have had a softer deal, followed by a GE and a new Tory government having to implement it much to their chagrin.

 

[yerwot?]

Despotic governments commit electoral suicide when their insatiable greed and contempt for the population finally stirs the public into action. The trick is to know when to row back, throw a few bribes (using the publics own money) until it's safe to get back on the throttle. It goes wrong when egoes and greed refuse to bow to the "little people". thatcher's successful slash and burn, union-bashing war on the poor made her feel invincible, the poll-tax riots proved otherwise. Booing johnson at an event that was expected to be a tory-fest must have shocked some of his 'fans' and the msm blackout made things worse, the beeb especially as it revealed them to be anything but impartial. Without social media, even with it's carpet-bombing russian bots, the public would have no idea of what happened, or swallowed the shite fed to them by the beeb and murdoch's/mail's blatant lies. May be the ever-worsening state of the country will filter through to the "can't be arsed to vote" party, which has more "members" than the tory party (both sides) and the labs (both sides). Fptp has to go, which is why it's feared by most of Westminster's gravy-train passengers.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Despotic governments commit electoral suicide when their insatiable greed and contempt for the population finally stirs the public into action. The trick is to know when to row back, throw a few bribes (using the publics own money) until it's safe to get back on the throttle. It goes wrong when egoes and greed refuse to bow to the "little people". thatcher's successful slash and burn, union-bashing war on the poor made her feel invincible, the poll-tax riots proved otherwise. Booing johnson at an event that was expected to be a tory-fest must have shocked some of his 'fans' and the msm blackout made things worse, the beeb especially as it revealed them to be anything but impartial. Without social media, even with it's carpet-bombing russian bots, the public would have no idea of what happened, or swallowed the shite fed to them by the beeb and murdoch's/mail's blatant lies. May be the ever-worsening state of the country will filter through to the "can't be arsed to vote" party, which has more "members" than the tory party (both sides) and the labs (both sides). Fptp has to go, which is why it's feared by most of Westminster's gravy-train passengers.

Johnson is getting booed despite being the head of the most socialist government we’ve had since Attlee was around.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The Lib Dems (Well their leader) let their personal issues with Corbyn overtake their role as a parliamentarian. We could have had a softer deal, followed by a GE and a new Tory government having to implement it much to their chagrin.

coulda woulda shoulda - unfortunately we have what we have - a hard Brexit caused by a hard core of nutters who are now scurrying away from the mess they have created - even a puppy or a kitten learns they can't just shit and piss all over the place and there be no consequences

 

[Octavian]

I think the reason so many on the remain side are shocked leave voters won’t admit it’s a failure because they’re measuring success and failure on completely different components.

The Brexit vote was an anti globalisation vote and that’s what leave voters cared about. Short-medium term economic damage isn’t the most important thing to them and whilst the leave campaign lied a lot about that, saying it would be good, your every day man in the street that voted for Brexit doesn’t have that at the top of what’s important.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I think the reason so many on the remain side are shocked leave voters won’t admit it’s a failure because they’re measuring success and failure on completely different components.

The Brexit vote was an anti globalisation vote and that’s what leave voters cared about. Short-medium term economic damage isn’t the most important thing to them and whilst the leave campaign lied a lot about that, saying it would be good, your every day man in the street that voted for Brexit doesn’t have that at the top of what’s important.

Which is alright in theory, but we don’t make anything any more and we don’t grow enough food to keep us alive, so we need globalisation to at least some extent.

Cutting ourself off from certain markets just increases the pressure on our people to afford to live.

Then came the pandemic. Then came the war in Ukraine.

The debate we are having at the moment is largely about hypothetical things. Let’s see how we stand next Easter.

Let’s see where we stand where we don’t get the EU grants to regenerate towns and cities.

As Hilts said last night, the majority of Brexit hasn’t been implemented yet as we arent in a position to do so.

There is a chance it all comes good. I doubt it’s odds on at the bookies though.

 

[west didsblue]

I think the reason so many on the remain side are shocked leave voters won’t admit it’s a failure because they’re measuring success and failure on completely different components.

The Brexit vote was an anti globalisation vote and that’s what leave voters cared about. Short-medium term economic damage isn’t the most important thing to them and whilst the leave campaign lied a lot about that, saying it would be good, your every day man in the street that voted for Brexit doesn’t have that at the top of what’s important.

I bet most Brexit voters couldn’t say what globalisation is never mind use it as a reason to leave the EU. One of the Brexit catchphrases was “Global Britain” so why the fuck would too much globalisation be a reason for Brexit. Most will openly admit that their first priority was controlling borders and immigration and even that isn’t exactly going well. All we’ve managed to do is put off the seasonal workers we need to service a fair chunk of our economy in the agricultural, healthcare and hospitality sectors. Meanwhile there’s been no discernible effect on controlling the numbers of economic migrants from poor countries.

 

[Octavian]

Which is alright in theory, but we don’t make anything any more and we don’t grow enough food to keep us alive, so we need globalisation to at least some extent.

Cutting ourself off from certain markets just increases the pressure on our people to afford to live.

Then came the pandemic. Then came the war in Ukraine.

The debate we are having at the moment is largely about hypothetical things. Let’s see how we stand next Easter.

Let’s see where we stand where we don’t get the EU grants to regenerate towns and cities.

As Hilts said last night, the majority of Brexit hasn’t been implemented yet as we arent in a position to do so.

There is a chance it all comes good. I doubt it’s odds on at the bookies though.

Yeah completely agree with all that, we need globalisation for sure, I’m just not sure everyone thinks that way.

The big internal argument in Britain should have been an honest discussion about how much.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Yeah completely agree with all that, we need globalisation for sure, I’m just not sure everyone thinks that way.

The big internal argument in Britain should have been an honest discussion about how much.

I guess the answer to that is somewhere between enough for us to live within our means as a country to full on globalisation, dependent on whatever the issues are at the time of asking.

 

[JOGAMIGMOG]

Is there any hope that we can re-join the EU any time soon or have we fucked ourselves over for eternity?

 

[west didsblue]

Is there any hope that we can re-join the EU any time soon or have we fucked ourselves over for eternity?

We’re not joining without the Euro and none of the opt outs we spent decades securing. I said years ago that the quickest way to closer integration was Brexit which would eventually be followed by rejoining. Can’t see it happening soon because as a country we’ve unsurprisingly managed to get ourselves a reputation as an untrustworthy negotiating partner thanks to Johnson and his band of talentless tossers.

 

[Octavian]

I bet most Brexit voters couldn’t say what globalisation is never mind use it as a reason to leave the EU. One of the Brexit catchphrases was “Global Britain” so why the fuck would too much globalisation be a reason for Brexit. Most will openly admit that their first priority was controlling borders and immigration and even that isn’t exactly going well. All we’ve managed to do is put off the seasonal workers we need to service a fair chunk of our economy in the agricultural, healthcare and hospitality sectors. Meanwhile there’s been no discernible effect on controlling the numbers of economic migrants from poor countries.

Just insulting people won’t convince them.

That’s why I said the leave campaign chatted bollocks, people were voting out of a view of British National identity, they didn’t want to integrate with the rest of the world.

Net migration is down 11% in 2022 from 2021 and 2021 was down 10% on 2020. Of course some of that was definitely pandemic related but the pandemic is now over and it’s still falling. The end of free movement from the EU and the new immigration rules are having an impact.

 

[west didsblue]

Just insulting people won’t convince them.

That’s why I said the leave campaign chatted bollocks, people were voting out of a view of British National identity, they didn’t want to integrate with the rest of the world.

Net migration is down 11% in 2022 from 2021 and 2021 was down 10% on 2020. Of course some of that was definitely pandemic related but the pandemic is now over and it’s still falling. The end of free movement from the EU and the new immigration rules are having an impact.

I’m not trying to convince anyone and I’m not sure where you think you’re being insulted. You posted some nonsense about globalisation when all the government go on about is global Britain.

Of course migration from the EU is down - that’s why major sectors of the economy are struggling. Have you got figures for economic migrants from the RoW?

 

[Len Rum]

Errol Brown ( Hot Chocolate)?
Martin Tyler (commentary at end of THE game)?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Errol Brown ( Hot Chocolate)?
Martin Tyler (commentary at end of THE game)?

Good shout. That’s why we’re all drinking it in, that’s the truth.

 

[journolud]

I think the reason so many on the remain side are shocked leave voters won’t admit it’s a failure because they’re measuring success and failure on completely different components.

The Brexit vote was an anti globalisation vote and that’s what leave voters cared about. Short-medium term economic damage isn’t the most important thing to them and whilst the leave campaign lied a lot about that, saying it would be good, your every day man in the street that voted for Brexit doesn’t have that at the top of what’s important.

I doubt very much that vast swathes of leave voters were thinking “this globalisation lark has gone a bit far” and if they were they’d be disappointed with our government’s attempts to do trade deals with Australia, New Zealand, India and the like.

You’re closer to the mark with your later post suggesting immigration was an issue but I think the appeal was to baser instincts

 

[Octavian]

I’m not trying to convince anyone and I’m not sure where you think you’re being insulted. You posted some nonsense about globalisation when all the government go on about is global Britain.

Of course migration from the EU is down - that’s why major sectors of the economy are struggling. Have you got figures for economic migrants from the RoW?

I didn’t say you were insulting me. It wasn’t nonsense, it’s the real reason Brexit was so popular with so many, if you believe it’s because everyone thought they’d be able to afford another car, then I disagree. No idea what EU vs non EU is sorry, it didn’t break it down and a Google search isn’t giving me anything for the last 18 month.

 

[Octavian]

I doubt very much that vast swathes of leave voters were thinking “this globalisation lark has gone a bit far” and if they were they’d be disappointed with our government’s attempts to do trade deals with Australia, New Zealand, India and the like.

You’re closer to the mark with your later post suggesting immigration was an issue but I think the appeal was to baser instincts

Immigration is a big part of globalisation and was probably the biggest indicator of the vote to leave.

 

[blueparrot]

Just insulting people won’t convince them.

That’s why I said the leave campaign chatted bollocks, people were voting out of a view of British National identity, they didn’t want to integrate with the rest of the world.

Net migration is down 11% in 2022 from 2021 and 2021 was down 10% on 2020. Of course some of that was definitely pandemic related but the pandemic is now over and it’s still falling. The end of free movement from the EU and the new immigration rules are having an impact.

Yes, not a good one as anyone with a farming, hospitality, travel business will tell you. Not to mention an under staffed care sector and the NHS.