How far will the fall be before evasive action is taken?

[BillyShears]

I'm not saying the squad is anywhere near as good as Europe's elite, just the best in this country and comfortably so IMO. I also know injuries haven't helped Pellegrini at all this season but his complete refusal to adapt to the fact that we have so many players out just compounds things for me rather than make me sympathise with him. For most of the matches he has had more than enough available to do much better anyway. Sunday will be interesting because we are proper fucked now in terms of injuries, worse than ever, funnily enough I'm hopeful it might help him make some better decisions. I'm not as downbeat as I would usually be for Sunday following a shambles like the Leicester match.

Edit: Just to add regarding the obvious weak links/issues amongst the playing squad/recruitment of defenders. I'm not saying the squad is perfect, we do have some fairly obvious weaknesses but again Pellegrini just manages to compound things rather than make proper attempts to cope. Left back is a weakness but sympathy goes when he picks his slow left back to deal with the speedier threats on that side. Something that he has been doing since he came by the way. Pretty sure it was in his first season that we had Liverpool and Palace at home in a few days. He had to rotate full backs, fair enough, but he picked Kolarov against Liverpool who were at that time deploying Sterling as a right winger (Kolarov got torn a new one at times in that match) and Clichy against Palace who had nobody of note down that side. Nobody seemed to give a shit because we scraped through both games but I thought it was a ridiculous decision and one that he is still making. In terms of defenders, we have got rid of a few centre halves because they supposedly weren't suitable to play Pellegrini's defensive system. If he was allowed to dispose of defenders on the basis that they didn't suit him then I assume he has at least been consulted about who has come in and agreed that they more suit his style. The defence has just got worse and worse. I have little sympathy.

Yeah I hear you. I have a lot of sympathy for him overall though. You're right he has compounded issues we have had this season but most of those issues stem from players doing fucking stupid brain dead things on the pitch. Kolarov might be slow for example but his challenge for the free kick was still a pathetic piece of defending for a 20 + million pound defender. Otamendi has done some equally brain dead things which have directly cost is points. Nothing to do with tactics just stupid play from stupid players.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Yeah I hear you. I have a lot of sympathy for him overall though. You're right he has compounded issues we have had this season but most of those issues stem from players doing fucking stupid brain dead things on the pitch. Kolarov might be slow for example but his challenge for the free kick was still a pathetic piece of defending for a 20 + million pound defender. Otamendi has done some equally brain dead things which have directly cost is points. Nothing to do with tactics just stupid play from stupid players.

Indeed that is all true. It's not in my DNA to sympathise with managers though BIlly, you know that. I fully expect to be on here in February 2019 telling anyone who will listen to me that Pep is a clueless ****. :) I was ranting about Pellegrini at home the other day and my wife said to our 10 year old, "just ask your dad which managers City have had that he still actually likes."

 

[LadislavMplmx]

Yeah I hear you. I have a lot of sympathy for him overall though. You're right he has compounded issues we have had this season but most of those issues stem from players doing fucking stupid brain dead things on the pitch. Kolarov might be slow for example but his challenge for the free kick was still a pathetic piece of defending for a 20 + million pound defender. Otamendi has done some equally brain dead things which have directly cost is points. Nothing to do with tactics just stupid play from stupid players.

Joe Hart punching the fuckin thing when there was no one near him was the main contributor for the 1st goal IMO..he's always doing it...its sick

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yeah I hear you. I have a lot of sympathy for him overall though. You're right he has compounded issues we have had this season but most of those issues stem from players doing fucking stupid brain dead things on the pitch. Kolarov might be slow for example but his challenge for the free kick was still a pathetic piece of defending for a 20 + million pound defender. Otamendi has done some equally brain dead things which have directly cost is points. Nothing to do with tactics just stupid play from stupid players.

I don't disagree that individual mistakes have cost us and that no manager can legislate for those. But for their second goal, Zabaleta goes to ground well inside their half, which costs him precious seconds when he's trying to get back. Why is he where someone like Silva or Toure should be? Otamendi goes to ground about 25-30 yards out leaving his partner exposed. That should have been coached out of him as we know he's prone to that.

For the third goal, we've no one on the post(s). Stick Sterling or Aguero there, if you're not leaving them upfield. Then if someone does make a mistake, you've got a fall-back. There's no evidence of any planning or organisation there at all.

I think you said earlier that Kompany's return is not going to be the end of our problems. That's correct because if there's a shambles in front of him, or his full back is nowhere to be seen, then he's far more liable to make a mistake because he's got too many things to think about. I remember after we played and beat Chelsea a few seasons ago, that Gary Cahill said something like "You expect to face an all out attack on your back line around 3 times in a game. In this one there must have been 20 or more times that we were being overwhelmed. We've never faced pressure like that before" Can't remember if it was RM or MP who was the manager at the time but it showed a level of team play, planning and organisation that we've rarely seen the last two seasons.

 

[Father Paul]

You clearly care a lot about the club and are passionate, but I think you are looking in the wrong places to apportion blame here.

The squad of 2009/10 HAS been rejuvenated. It's been rejuvenated to the tune of 250 million quid.

For the last few years we've been saying we're too reliant on Silva, we need another creative force. We brought in the most creative player in Europe for £50million.

We've been saying we need some youth, we need some width, some pace. We brought in Sterling who is the best young prospect in England, even in Europe according to UEFA, for £45million.

People complained Lescott wasn't good enough on the ball, we need a centre half who can defend and is good on the ball. We brought in DeMichelis who is superb on the ball. We brought in a centre half who all of the biggest clubs in Europe were chasing in Mangala for £30million plus, we brought in the most highly rated centre back in Spain for £25million plus.

In midfield, people said Barry was too slow, can't get box to box, we need someone as good on the ball as Barry, who can also cover the yards that Yaya can't anymore. We brought in Fernandinho for £30million plus, and for my money he's the best box to box midfielder in the league this season.

We tried all summer to get the most highly rated midfielder in the world in Pogba to come. By all accounts we are still trying to get him to come. But getting players of that quality isn't easy. It took Madrid 3 years to finally land Ronaldo, but I'm sure they will all say it was worth the wait.

We've seen from Garcia, Fernando, Rodwell etc that buying average players who are easily gettable is not a sensible strategy for a club in our position. It's better to buy big and buy once instead of buying average and constantly having to replace them because they aren't good enough. I'm sure we'll be back in for Pogba this summer and players of his ilk, and we'll have a much better chance of getting them than ever before.

Of course we need strengthening at full back, and we'll definitely be bringing in at least 2 centre midfielders in my opinion. But based on our activity last summer, we brought in two attacking midfielders for nearly £100million which was possibly our biggest need. We also brought in a very highly rated centre half, and tried to get the best centre midfielder in the world. That one didn't come off. But in addition to them you are suggesting we should have brought in 2 new starting full backs last season.

That would have been 6 new starters! That's more than half a team, and would have cost around £300million to bring them all in during one summer! It's just not realistic.

Of course teams need rejuvenating every few years, but the fact is, we have been rejuvenated! We've brought in some of the most highly coveted players in Europe!

People were calling for Txiki to be knighted in the summer when he brought in De Bruyne, Sterling and Otamendi. The best teams in the world were chasing these guys, and we brought them all in. They've not all been as good as we expected, and now people are blaming that on recruitment?!! I just don't understand it. Everyone wanted these guys in the summer, and now they are not of the required standard?! I'm not having it.

The issue is not the recruitment. The issue is the management, it's so blatantly obvious that I can't believe any right minded individual can't see it.

How many players have improved during Pellegrini's reign? Go through the whole team. Kolarov? Maybe, for 5 or 6 games this season. Yaya in the title winning season, but now he looks like the ghost of Yaya Toure, so it's probably levelled itself out. Other than that, every player has either stayed the same or regressed.

It's too easy to say "Oh it's because they're older now, so they are bound to drop a level". I don't buy it. Kompany's form fell off a cliff last season, which some people seem to be forgetting. This despite the fact as a centre half he should be approaching his peak years. He actually should have improved based on age. Also Sterling and De Bruyne who weren't in our squad in 2010 have been much worse this season than they were in the previous two. Despite playing with better players.

Mangala and Fernando must be playing worse than when we bought them, otherwise we'd have never been interested! Otamendi must be worse than last season. He won La Liga defender of the season last year, and this year he is diving in like a cub scout on Smarties.

This manager took the best defence in the league for three years running and turned it in to a comedy side show. He actually added £75million worth of centre halves and made us much, much worse. Did we get unlucky in that 2 of the most highly rated centre halves in Europe actually turned out to be shite? Was is it just bad fortune that Kompany went from the best centre half in the league to one who gets laughed at on MOTD over the last 2 seasons? The only time any of our centre halves have shown decent form since Pellegrini got here was Kompany at the start of this season.

Nastasic was outstanding in his season under Mancini, and looked woefully out of his depth under Pellegrini. DeMichelis has done ok in patches, Mangala has potential but looks like an accident waiting to happen, Otamendi is clearly a top player, but his constant diving in and lack of concentration is costing us regularly. Kompany, as I said has had a dip in the last two seasons compared to previously. So out of the 5 centre backs Pellegrini has used, 4 have been clearly worse than they were previously. The only one who possibly remained the same is DeMichelis.

The other 4, two were already here and playing very well previously, so no blame for Txiki or recruitment there. Two were bought and were extremely highly rated. It surely can't be a coincidence that all 4 have regressed under Pellegrini's "management"?

So in short, yes the squad needs "tweaking" every year. That is the same at all top clubs. But to say the 2010 team needs "rejuvenating" is incorrect in my view. It's already been rejuvenated with some of the top talent in Europe. It's silly to say anyone who played in 2010 is incapable of playing now. Hart, Clichy, Zabba, Kompany, Silva, Nasri, Aguero are all very capable still at this level and at a decent age. In fact only Zabba is over 30, it's hardly Dad's Army.

From the core squad that won the first title clearly Yaya needs to move on, and in my view so does Kolarov. Other than that I don't see any major issues.

I've heard very good things about Angelino, so I'm sure he can come in to replace Kolarov, and we possibly need a new young right back. We definitely need a couple of centre mids to replace Yaya and Fernando. Hopefully one is Pogba. Other than that, I don't see the need for wholesale changes. The talent is there. They just need to be managed better.

Mancini got far more out of our defenders than Pellegrini does. I'm sure Guardiola will too. The issue isn't that our player's aren't good enough. The issue is the manager isn't, and next season will prove that beyond any doubt whatsoever.

Good post. However, I think the game is changing so fast that what we need most is a whole new style of play. The league this year has shown how work rate and movement are been rewarded fall more than possession and probing. This is something which has been happening in Europe too in recent years. In a sense the game has become a bit like basketball which is largely based on tight defence allied to swift counter attack. Variations on this theme exist with some teams seeming to favour pressing the opposition in their own half rather than getting men behind the ball before springing forward. But the key ingredient is speed and movement. LC and Spurs look like having very successful seasons because they have been good at getting their players into the right parts of the pitch quickly and effectively. On the other hand we look as though we may have another poor season due to the fact that our business model is out of date and our players are not quick enough and not energetic enough to what is required in the current environment.

 

[Dax777]

He had played him there before twice, it didn't remotely work either time to the point he was hauled off relatively early in the matches (as far as I remember), he tries it again and surprise surprise it doesn't work. You claim it was a sound decision tactically, I claim it wasn't on the basis that the tactic had clearly been shown not to work before. I understand that learning from experience is something that we definitely shouldn't be expecting from this manager though. And the fact that it illustrates how he doesn't learn when things don't work is exactly why it is a good example to use to show that "pellars sucks". As for the argument about it not working because of the opposition he deploys him against, that makes absolutely no sense to me as an argument. It's a tactic that would work when there isn't a huge threat on our left but doesn't work when there is? I assume that is what you are saying? So it is only a tactic that would work when it isn't needed. What kind of a defence of the tactic is that?

What exactly does that mean?
We didn't win?
Delph was poor?
The objective wasn't achieved?
He got pulled, proving the point?
Coz the generic, 'it didn't work', doesn clear things up.

As my answer about the tactic specifically refers to we didn't win when he was played there.

But even simpler, we've played Sterling multiple times on the left at the start of the season and he looked poor, but he improved there with persistence. Suggesting you should not play a player in a position because you tried him their once and it didn't work is silly. Everyone intuitively realizes this.

But I guess on this one we have to pretend we don't. I can give examples of this claim from past seasons.

Demi at CB, Garcia at DM, Fernando as a single DM, Sterling at LM. Aguero up top by himself. DeBryune at CAM. Clichy at Leftback. The list of 'it doesn't work when he is played there or with so and so' is endless.

It is something fans say, and then change their mind on when eventually proved wrong. Which tends to be the case almost every time.

So don't fault me whenb I choose not to go with the herd on an issue they lose out on every time.

 

[Pam]

I am so bloody worried about slipping out of 4th spot.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

What exactly does that mean?
We didn't win?
Delph was poor?
The objective wasn't achieved?
He got pulled, proving the point?
Coz the generic, 'it didn't work', doesn clear things up.

As my answer about the tactic specifically refers to we didn't win when he was played there.

But even simpler, we've played Sterling multiple times on the left at the start of the season and he looked poor, but he improved there with persistence. Suggesting you should not play a player in a position because you tried him their once and it didn't work is silly. Everyone intuitively realizes this.

But I guess on this one we have to pretend we don't. I can give examples of this claim from past seasons.

Demi at CB, Garcia at DM, Fernando as a single DM, Sterling at LM. Aguero up top by himself. DeBryune at CAM. Clichy at Leftback. The list of 'it doesn't work when he is played there or with so and so' is endless.

It is something fans say, and then change their mind on when eventually proved wrong. Which tends to be the case almost every time.

So don't fault me whenb I choose not to go with the herd on an issue they lose out on every time.

What exactly does it mean? In those games we were losing and he was taken off after 45 mins, 52 mins and 54 mins so I am guessing that even the manager didn't really think it was working? I am sure you will contest this though with some pedantic, pseudo intellectual bullshit that is more about semantics than football. I completely take your point that it may work over an extended period of time in which case he should be playing him there in other matches to get him used to playing that role (which is what he did with all those examples you used although I'm not sure why on earth you are citing most of them as they are players who were already well versed in the roles you mention and not examples of the manager playing them out of position) and not just throwing him in at the deep end every now and then, in huge matches where he will be dealing with a genuine threat on that side, hauling him off after barely half the match each time and then for no apparent reason expecting it to go much better when he tries again a month later. Whichever way you dress it up, it was a poor decision and ultimately "it didn't work".

 

[Pam]

Absolutely spot on. In fact I'd go further. It is evidently true that Pellegrini hasn't developed individual players or built any sense of team during his term but why is this? His tactical choices baffle me on a weekly basis. The weekends game was a perfect example. Leicesters greatest threat is fast transition primarily through Vardy and Mahrez in the first or second phase; anyone who has seen them this season knows this. Both Vardy's and Mahrez preferred zone is Leicesters right hand channel as they attack. So how does Pellegrini counter their primary threat, obviously he plays our two slowest defenders in that area! Now knowing that pace is the key wouldn't you have thought Pellegrini would have chosen Cliche and Sagna rather than Kolarov and MDM?

I could go on and on about how week after week he has got it tactically wrong and how he is ruining player like Sterling, Delph, Otamendi, Yaya and now Kalechi by asking them to do jobs that they are not best suited to or roles that best address the needs of the team with reference to the opposition.

We have a great squad that is so far less than the sum of its parts because of this clown, it's hard to take. I wonder what practical jokes he's going to come up with for the Spurs game?

Thanks mate, and I totally agree with you about Kolarov and Clichy. I've made the same point myself on here.

That's the trouble with Pellegrini, I'm not sure if he even bothers to analyse opponents. If he does, he either doesn't have a clue how to counter their strengths, or he doesn't give a toss.

Either way, he's been making the same mistakes since the Cardiff away game in his first season. A long ball team with a very pacy forward, and we line up with a high line containing Lescott and Javi Garcia as centre backs. 442 against Mourinho's Chelsea, Fernando and Milner in centre midfield against Barcelona, 442 against Pep's Bayern at home, Fernando and Yaya in a 2 against Klopp's Liverpool at home, Kolarov and Zabba against Leiceste, the list goes on.

His catalogue of tactical ineptitude is is thicker than the phone book. This isn't a recent phenomenon, he's been doing it since he got here. We can't win every game, but the above 6 games are just off the top of my head where the manager has been directly responsible for us getting dicked with his pathetic "tactics". I'm sure there are many other examples.

I've always thought this manager is more of a hinderance than a help, and anything we win will be in spite of him, not because of him.

There isn't an obvious contender to steer us until the end of the season, so I guess we are stuck with him. I wish he'd swallow his pride and make some pragmatic decisions for the sake of the club and the fans, but I won't be holding my breath.[/QUOTE]
How many times have people on here complained about the line-up prior to kick off. And they are almost right. There shouldn't be one Blue Mooner who might be better at the job than Pellers. Unfortunately, though, there are many. The guy is stealing a living just now. I am sooooo pissed off about these drubbings we keep getting, ffs. It is disgraceful, injuries or no injuries. Grrrrr!!!

 

[Dax777]

What exactly does it mean? In those games we were losing and he was taken off after 45 mins, 52 mins and 54 mins so I am guessing that even the manager didn't really think it was working? I am sure you will contest this though with some pedantic, pseudo intellectual bullshit that is more about semantics than football. I completely take your point that it may work over an extended period of time in which case he should be playing him there in other matches to get him used to playing that role (which is what he did with all those examples you used although I'm not sure why on earth you are citing most of them as they are players who were already well versed in the roles you mention and not examples of the manager playing them out of position) and not just throwing him in at the deep end every now and then, in huge matches where he will be dealing with a genuine threat on that side, hauling him off after barely half the match each time and then for no apparent reason expecting it to go much better when he tries again a month later. Whichever way you dress it up, it was a poor decision and ultimately "it didn't work".

James Milner as left mid? Yaya Toure as an AM or CM?
Not every player that came to us as a specialist in one position ended up playing for us in that position.

Fans make it seem like it some complexed change. It isnt. Most footballers can play multiple positions with the utmost ease. It's fans who label that as such and buy into their own labels.

Watch the 1st 45 minutes vs Everton. Delph was pretty good at LM.

But even more annoying than the labelling, is the restrictive nature of the label. In a single game, we often change tactics and formation multiple times in a single game. Its not as simplistic as fans make it our to be.

Against Everton for example:
We started almost exactly how we started against Leicester. Delph left, Silva right and Sterling behind Aguero.
Later Sterling moved Left, Delph tucks in a bit, Yaya drops off, and Dihno pushes a little right and closer to Zab. Then Sterling goes right, Silva plays left Delph at LCM Yaya at DM and Dihno at RCM (but ahead oj Delph and Yaya). They finished the half out that way

The positional changes, are so ingrainedvinto how we play, that a simplistic Delph doesn't work at LM seems silly.

And by the way, Delph was quite good.