How far will the fall be before evasive action is taken?

[Latics Fan SJK]

It isn't. If our defenders are being left exposed by the system and making mistakes, then the pragmatic answer is to tighten things up in front of them and maybe sacrifice some attacking intent. Leaving them exposed week after week and hoping they don't make mistakes is not good management. What's annoying is there are games where we have tightened up, such as in Seville and at Sunderland, and we won both.

Not only that, but given that Mahrez plays off the right and Vardy loves a diagonal run to the left, I was baffled to see Sagna & Clichy, who are both quicker, more reactive and arguably better defenders, on the bench and Zabaleta and Kolarov as starters. Those are tactical blunders straight away.

IMO, of course.

 

[BillyShears]

I've already said that the first and third goals were obviously preventablr and I wouldn't blame Pellegrini directly for those. I'd love to know if there was any specific preparation or instructions in training but the goals came because Huth (to use a cliche) 'wanted it more'. Obviously I don't know what defensive drills are done in training currently but I do know that Pep will spend a morning a fortnight drilling the defence in hair-splitting detail.

I also know he may well play an even higher line that we do currently. But there will be strict instructions given to the defenders and the players in front of them as to what to do and where to be. I highly doubt that we would have given away a goal like the second one under Pep yet it's typical of the sort of goal we're conceding at the moment, where we surrender possession in midfield and our opponents have a free run (often with numerical superiority) through our midfield and defence. That happened a few times on Saturday but fortunately we only conceded from one.

You simply cannot deny that managerial failings (the word 'incompetence' was unwarranted) are playing a significant part in our failure to get the results we should be getting.

So what is this discussion then? Pep will do things better? Well that isn't really a revelation to me. He's a better manager with a better pedigree.

You want me to engage in a conversation about what kind of preparation Pellegrini does and what instructions he gives out during training? I can't because i'm not privy to his training sessions. However I'd hazard a guess that since he's been managing at a very high level for so long, his training sessions aren't half as bad as people are making out. I actually despair when i read things about how we must do nothing in training or that we never ever prepare based on the opposition. There are plenty of comments in the public domain from our current players which fly in the face of both of those lazy characterisations.

Managerial failings are absolutely playing their part in our failure to get the results we want. That's undeniable, and it's the reality of football. Whenever shit goes tits up, the manager carries the can, and normally justifiably so, as it will be in Pellegrini's case.

 

[Saddleworth2]

First and foremost, in answer to the OP's question, there will be no evasive action. We've made our announcement, Guardiola is here next season, Pellegrini is in charge until then. We won't be replacing him before the season ends.

Our form has been pretty poor for a fair while, we're lucky that we started the season so well because, without those early wins, we'd be really struggling currently.

We won 7 of our first 9 league games, losing the other 2. Since then we've only won another 7 league games, drawing 5 and losing 4. So, that's 21 points from our first 9 games, and 26 points from the following 16 games, 2.33 points per game compared with 1.625 points per game. There's been a clear drop off. In fact, since beating Bournemouth in our 9th league game of the season we haven't managed back to back league victories. That's almost 4 months without back to back league wins. That's a truly damning statistic, and clearly points to a worrying lack of consistency from City.

Pellegrini is a professional football manager, his coaches are professional football coaches, they are clearly working on the defensive side of the game with City's squad, to suggest otherwise is simply idiotic. The issue lies in, specifically, what they are instructing the defenders to do. Whatever plans they have to deal with defensive situations they are clearly not working. Everyone involved in football will have their own style, their own ideas on how a defence should be drilled, how they should be structured. Pellegrini seems to prefer allowing individuals to take responsibility for their own actions, we are far less regimented defensively under him, with less cover, and certainly a less cohesive shape when we don't have the ball. I don't personally like it, but there's no reason, with the right personnel, it couldn't be effective. The issue we have is the we've not got the right personnel, both due to the recruitment of our defenders, and due to the injury issues we've had this season.

Pellegrini can't be blamed entirely for the recruitment, one suspects Begiristain probably has a bigger say in individual purchases/targets than Pellegrini does (that will likely change when Guardiola arrives) and many of our defenders have been inherited from Mancini's time at the club, and before that too. Clichy, Zabaleta, Kolarov and Kompany all predate Pellegrini, whilst Sagna and Demichelis were clearly FFP restriction driven signings, and Mangala and Otamendi both arrived with good reputations. Where I do blame Pellegrini is in his insistence on trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Our defensive players are not really suited to the tactics Pellegrini wants to employ, this means he has 2 options, replace the players, or replace the tactics, the third option of "just stick with the tactics and muddle through" shouldn't have even been in the equation, yet alone where we ended up. A distinct lack of tactical tweaking, to deal with specific sides, or specific players, both before, and during, games is also a constant frustration with Pellegrini. At times it seems as if he has his way of doing things and that's what we'll do, and if it isn't working then we'll just keep doing it and see what happens.

I suspect this season will pan out as follows:-

1 - We'll win the Capital One Cup, Liverpool aren't anything special and you'd hope our big players turn up for the cup final 9lthough Wigan proved this isn't always the case)
2 - We'll lose to Chelsea in the FA Cup, although this will likely be down to the FA's fucking ridiculous scheduling of the fixture and our squad choices off the back of this.
3 - We'll finish in 2nd place in the league, behind Arsenal in all likelihood. Spurs and Leicester have never had to deal wit the pressure of a title tilt, we have. I think both will start to drop some points, and we'll find a way of clawing our way past them both. Arsenal however have enough quality to get the results we seem incapable of getting.
4 - We'll have too much for Kiev in Europe, and then it's all down to the luck of the draw. If we get the Gent/Wolfsburg, Benfica/Zenit or possibly PSV/Atletico Madrid winners then we'd have a shot at making the semi final. If we get Real, PSG, Barca or Bayern then we'll go out.

I would take that outcome in a heartbeat as a good result based on where we are with current form and injuries.

 

[Matty]

That's a top post Matty. Although I still think we'll win the league!

Cheers! We really need to turn it around form wise for you to be right, starting with actually winning 2 games in a fucking row!

We are almost certainly going to finish this season with our lowest haul of points since Mancini's first full season in charge of City. If we win all our remaining games we'd finish on 86 points, no-one in the right mind could suggest that's remotely likely! If we look at the season as a whole we've accrued on average 1.88 points per game, if we manage that same return between now and the end of the season we'd have 71/72 points. As I previously mentioned though, that takes into account our early form, if we continue on our current return of just 1.625 points per game we'd have 68/69 points. This season is likely to see a low winning points total, given the inconsistency of so many sides, however the last time a Premier League title was won with less than 80 points was United in 1999, and they had 79 points! In fact 1997, 98 and 99 are the only occasions since the Premier League began that the winner has achieved less than 80 points. For City to break 80 points we'd need to win a minimum of 11 of our remaining 13 games!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Managerial failings are absolutely playing their part in our failure to get the results we want. That's undeniable, and it's the reality of football.

Good, as we're then largely on the same page. You give the impression sometimes that you're trying to absolve him of any blame but I know you're not (particularly after listening to the podcast). I'm obviously giving you the impression that I'm trying to pin all the blame for our failings onto him, which I'm not.

The other thing I'd say is that even earlier this season and much of last, I got the definite impression that we seemed to start much more cautiously, spending the first 15 minutes or so feeling the opposition out. Now it looks like we're coming out with more aggressive intent from the off, which is perhaps leaving us more open.

 

[BillyShears]

Cheers! We really need to turn it around form wise for you to be right, starting with actually winning 2 games in a fucking row!

We are almost certainly going to finish this season with our lowest haul of points since Mancini's first full season in charge of City. If we win all our remaining games we'd finish on 86 points, no-one in the right mind could suggest that's remotely likely! If we look at the season as a whole we've accrued on average 1.88 points per game, if we manage that same return between now and the end of the season we'd have 71/72 points. As I previously mentioned though, that takes into account our early form, if we continue on our current return of just 1.625 points per game we'd have 68/69 points. This season is likely to see a low winning points total, given the inconsistency of so many sides, however the last time a Premier League title was won with less than 80 points was United in 1999, and they had 79 points! In fact 1997, 98 and 99 are the only occasions since the Premier League began that the winner has achieved less than 80 points. For City to break 80 points we'd need to win a minimum of 11 of our remaining 13 games!

I never thought winning two games in a row would become such a challenge! :)

Look I try not to get bogged down in statistics in terms of previous seasons to try and predict the current one. It feels like a very unique season in which a record low number of points will win it.

On a more general note, do you think that this season is an anomaly in terms of the results across the entire league, or do you think it's a sign of things to come in terms of the quality of player in the top 8/10 positions in the league being such that it'll be easier in future for a team like Leicester with no European football and no real cup commitments to be able to put a run together and end up where they are ?

For me that is going to be the case, and in fact it began with Liverpool two seasons ago although they had Suarez which helped immensely. We will see less of an established "top 4" and more of a top 6/8 with any of these teams capable each season of putting the right run together to finish in a CL spot and in some cases mount at title challenge.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I would take that outcome in a heartbeat as a good result based on where we are with current form and injuries.

So would I.

We might conceivably win the COC in that it's one game and anything can happen with one game. But we are odds on to lose it. (a) we have a pretty dismal record against them, (b) we are playing shite and riddled with injuries, (c) they have a top manager who will set his team up to win. Our manager will set our team up to play like we always do.

Regards the league, we will do very well to finish above Leiceater and both Arsenal and Spurs are playing better than us and are ahead of us. I don't see any indication why we should suddenly start picking up points and overtaking them, quite the contrary in fact. I fully expect us to get tonked on Sunday.

FA Cup and CL we are going nowhere in, agreed.

 

[casualdeyna]

Got to admit I'm finding it hard not to get really on MP's back, I remember the days when we hired and fired managers for fun so I honestly try and err on the side of giving managers time and that as fans we can and do overreact, but as others have said I am fearful Pep will take over a team not in the Champions League.

We are getting outrun and outfought, the middle of the park is a shambles. The premier league especially is a league where you have to earn your right to play football, you have to match the opposition for running and work rate or you'll get turned over. It's becoming so obvious now to beat us you just have to have runners in midfield, we're wide open anyway so our back four (which also really lacks pace with Demechelis in it) is brutally exposed.

Yaya simply cannot play in the middle without at least two others that are full of running because he ambles around when not in possession, even more so this season. Delph and Ferdandinho have to play in the centre, don't keep putting Delph out on the left and sub him at half time, play him in the ruddy middle, at least we'd get closer to matching the opposition work rate. Yaya can still be an important player, coming on for last 30/20 mins when game slowed a bit, or in the front of a midfield three where he has the least responsibilty defensively, problem is I think that is also Silva's best position just behind Aguero, certainly looks less effective coming of the wing of late.

Some of our performances this (and last!) season have been shambolic, I cannot believe a professional manager cannot see these things. I don't need UEFA coaching badges to see performances like Liverpool, Leicester and Stoke have been amateur. You can accept defeats when you've given it everything and it "just isn't your day" these things happen in football. Thing the growing anger though amongst many I believe is our pathetic work rate and shape when we don't have the ball.

There are other concerns especially tactically, in that I don't think we have any, but the main thing getting right on my nerves is that teams work harder than us, there is no excuse for that. We need to start putting a shift in, or risk finishing below that shower because at the moment if I was a manager I would be rubbing my hands if I was playing City because I know I'd pick a team that will run rings around our lack of a midfield. If we matched teams for effort our quality would show, at the moment it's pretty hard to stomach to be honest, but hey at least MP is a nice guy and says hello to the players every day.

 

[Latics Fan SJK]

Just to give you an idea of what's remaining in the season...

 

[OB1]

Joe saved three one on ones against Leicester if i remember correctly plus the other chances in and around the box they squandered-we were all over the show Billy and that's the managers job to do something about it.

If it wasn't for Joe's brilliance this season we would be chasing a CL spot fella.Time after time average to good teams carve us wide open consistently this season-even before our injuries piled up.

Not got time to read whole thread but the comment about if it wasn't for Joe is a refrain I've seen a few times. That is his job and the reason top team have top keepers. He already has less shots to save than any other keeper in the league. Sure we can do, Bayern concede a couple or so less shots per game than us but part of Joe's role is to spring into action when the defence has been breached in some way.