Hughes Outers- Name names

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

My only concerns about Van Gaal, who I rate highly, would the following:

His desire to manage at a club that will be all over the media, all over the world, every day of the year (assuming things go to plan). It's a long time since he was at Barca and I get the feeling it scarred him a bit.

Secondly, I seem to remember that he became quite frustrated with some players at Barca and was, at some points, seen as either a bit of a tyrant or very, very demanding, depending on how you look at it.

That's not a problem in itself but I honestly believe that the overwhelming failure on the part of Hughes has been his attempts to manage in a dictatorial style, an unreasonable attitude and to alienate, possibly intentionally, parts of (if not more) club/squad that he felt did not meet his standards.

Not only is that sort of management slightly outdated, it has never worked at the very highest level without combining it with a completely opposite, motivational side that has the players willing to run through walls for you. Not because they are scared. But because they respect and like the manager too.

(Obvioulsy I can't say that this is definitely the cause of Hughes' downfall, but I'd be willing to stake money on it at decent odds as an educated guess, taking into account everything that has happened this season).

I'd be slightly concerned that Van Gaal, might be tempted to go down a similar route, as there's something stuck in my mind that this was part of his downfall at Barca, where more 'glamorous' players reacted slightly differently to his style than the 19 year olds he had as the bulk of his team at Ajax.

But, it would be the job of the people employing him to this find out. I'm sure that there is a bit more to him and that the above is quite simplistic, regarding his style. People also change as they get older.

Talking just pure football credentials, he would definitely be on my list. I'd just want a few answers regarding motivation and styles.

 

[Anonymous]

My only concerns about Van Gaal, who I rate highly, would the following:

His desire to manage at a club that will be all over the media, all over the world, every day of the year (assuming things go to plan). It's a long time since he was at Barca and I get the feeling it scarred him a bit.

Secondly, I seem to remember that he became quite frustrated with some players at Barca and was, at some points, seen as either a bit of a tyrant or very, very demanding, depending on how you look at it.

That's not a problem in itself but I honestly believe that the overwhelming failure on the part of Hughes has been his attempts to manage in a dictatorial style, an unreasonable attitude and to alienate, possibly intentionally, parts of (if not more) club/squad that he felt did not meet his standards.

Not only is that sort of management slightly outdated, it has never worked at the very highest level without combining it with a completely opposite, motivational side that has the players willing to run through walls for you. Not because they are scared. But because they respect and like the manager too.

(Obvioulsy I can't say that this is definitely the cause of Hughes' downfall, but I'd be willing to stake money on it at decent odds as an educated guess, taking into account everything that has happened this season).

I'd be slightly concerned that Van Gaal, might be tempted to go down a similar route, as there's something stuck in my mind that this was part of his downfall at Barca, where more 'glamorous' players reacted slightly differently to his style than the 19 year olds he had as the bulk of his team at Ajax.

But, it would be the job of the people employing him to this find out. I'm sure that there is a bit more to him and that the above is quite simplistic, regarding his style. People also change as they get older.

Talking just pure football credentials, he would definitely be on my list. I'd just want a few answers regarding motivation and styles.

I think that if you're a tyrant, but the results are there, the players will go with it...

If I remember correctly it was his dropping of Pep which ultimately was his downfall at Barca...

 

[SCF08]

The strange thing is that most of the players that worked with Van Gaal are absolutely in love with him.

They had a recent poll in Holland amongst players and they asked every Eredivisie player which manager they would like to work with and Van Gaal was top of the list.

The hard man bit is mostly directed to the press. He's always arguing with them because Van Gaal ''is the man that invented football and he is the only one that understands every aspect inside out'' I just gave you a little sketch of his thinking/mentality and mind.

He would love to join a big club. He's spoken openly of his desire to join Bayern Munich (Before Klinsmann was appointed) and he wants to manage a team at the World Cup 2010. He also said that he would like to manage Belgium who have an amazing amount of great young players coming through. 4/5 of them are in his AZ team right now.

 

[Anonymous]

The strange thing is that most of the players that worked with Van Gaal are absolutely in love with him.

They had a recent poll in Holland amongst players and they asked every Eredivisie player which manager they would like to work with and Van Gaal was top of the list.

The hard man bit is mostly directed to the press. He's always arguing with them because Van Gaal ''is the man that invented football and he is the only one that understands every aspect inside out'' I just gave you a little sketch of his thinking/mentality and mind.

He would love to join a big club. He's spoken openly of his desire to join Bayern ****** (Before Klinsmann was appointed) and he wants to manage a team at the World Cup 2010. He also said that he would like to manage Belgium who have an amazing amount of great young players coming through. 4/5 of them are in his AZ team right now.

I would say there are a hell of a lot of similarities between the special one and Van Gaal...

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Sign him up then. Like I said, they are only questions I would have from a long way away and not following his every comment in recent years.

The thing that Mourinho (and most top managers) does so well is to have the players totally believe in them and actually to like them. It's all very well laying the law down but without the otherside you are screwed at the highest level.

I remember a couple of years ago, Carvalho (or maybe Ferreira) wasn't in the team at the start of the season and said a couple of things in the press. Mourinho slaughtered him in public, said he could leave if he wasn't happy and basically virtually humiliated him. And this was one of his 'favourites'. He gets away with it because, apart from being in the right, the player, and the rest of the group, love the bloke, see what he does for them and believe in him. And that's built up by getting to know each other and him having a certain personality.

The best managers manouvere themselves into this situation and I honestly think that Hughes has come in, done the bollocking/hard man bit virtually straight away whilst forgetting to, or not having the personal/man managment skills to do the other bit. One doesn't work without the other.

 

[pedrag40]

Only one man for the job before the scum snatch him next year!

1. Morinho
2. Cappello
3. Van Gaal
4. Bilic

 

[Anonymous]

The best managers manouvere themselves into this situation and I honestly think that Hughes has come in, done the bollocking/hard man bit virtually straight away whilst forgetting to, or not having the personal/man managment skills to do the other bit. One doesn't work without the other.

You've been saying that for a long time now, and to be fair, I think more and more, you're probably right.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Funnily enough, I think Cappello is probably an example of someone who, in public anyway, does without the second bit and doesn't worry about getting on the good side of players or whether they like him. Whether that is actually the way to manage a successful club team now, I'm not sure. He certainly wasn't universally liked at Madrid the second time and I feel that his success with this style now depends very much on players respecting his track record. Some of the England players seem terrified of him when talking. Given their previous 'Big time' reputation that's probably a situation where his style goes down well.

I don't know whether a manager without his track record could start his career managing in that way now though as Cappello's success relies entirely on players respecting him. And that only comes through his record, as his style gives the modern primadonna them every reason to dislike him.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

The best managers manouvere themselves into this situation and I honestly think that Hughes has come in, done the bollocking/hard man bit virtually straight away whilst forgetting to, or not having the personal/man managment skills to do the other bit. One doesn't work without the other.

You've been saying that for a long time now, and to be fair, I think more and more, you're probably right.

That's my main argument for not giving him more time.

I could give credence to the, another year, his signings have been good, things will settle, we're not far from being a good team arguments in neutral circumstances.

However, I think there is something badly wrong in terms of morale at the club and given the stories, rumours, selections and evidence on the pitch throughout the season, I have to guess that it comes from the manager's style. He has virtually said as much himself at various points, talking of people who aren't up to what he expects, culture shocks and various other cliches.

But without having your players completely onside you go very quickly from the Mourinho, Ferguson, Van Gaal style of management, where their players would do anything for them, to the Ball and Souness style, where the players are not convinced by them and end up resenting them.

And that's what everything suggests to me.

It's recoverable in the sense that we have so much spending power that we will undoubtedly sign some decent players in the summer, let some leave and improve the quality of the squad in the summer. No matter who is in charge, even if Hughes might not be able to attract those who others might.

However, we can't and won't replace half, three quarters or a ridiculous percentage of the squad. So we still have to get more out of many players who are totally underpeforming now. A manager who doesn't have the players onside now will have to undergo a miraculous change to do so during the summer, with a year's history behind them.

So why risk it when a new manager will aurtomatically have the players onside unless they come in with an attitude that alienates them (as I suspect Hughes did), which you would expect a serious, top class manager to avoid. Plus, we get a better manager at the same time.

I do actually think that even if he gets another season we will improve. It would be very difficult not to with this squad and the summer spending power. However, I also think it will be slowed dramitcally as it will have to be using players that seem to be totally unconvinced by what he is doing or who he just doesn't seem able to coach decent performances from on anything like a consistent basis. Therefore getting a lot less from them than others could.

Of course, I could be talking rubbish and all the players love Hughes, want to play for him and really believe in what he does. After all, I am just speculating, based on various things. The on pitch evidence alone tends to suggest otherwise.

 

[Mark - TheBlue]

JOSE MOURINHOOO