Hughes..the reality

[DINKYDALTON]

The records and experience of the two are poles apart. Only City fans could seriously have this deabte.

You're right of course. I have thought about this - if we're buying the best players surely we buy the best manager too. Twelve months ago who'd have Hughes over Scolari? Jose does have a magic touch but I never really enjoyed watching Chelsea play stifling possession football. Sven was another who I think was a good manager, and I never understood those who thought his England record was bad, but I didn't enjoy watching his teams hang on to one-nil leads. (Interesting how Capello began with the Italian plan A that Sven followed but has now moved onto a plan B with a faster/attacking style more suited to the English players).

The debate isn't just about who is the best right now, as Jose wins hands down. It's more that our results have improved significantly over the second half of the season (to top 5/6 quality even without the centre back and tall centre forward that we tried to buy), and that we have at times played some fantastic football, which is not what you'd have associated with Hughes previously. The debate for me, is whether Hughes has shown enough promise, that he'll be able to take us on with the much better players we can buy in the summer. A new manager is always a risk and inevitably adds a little disruption, so the choice isn't quite so clear cut.

Oviously Spice isn't just being sold on Camden Market.

 

[DINKYDALTON]

Fascinating figures - it does show with Chelsea and ourselves the kind of money it takes to climb up the tree if you're not already at the top.

Once you have a winning team the cost of staying there diminishes (one of the reasons why the Rags and Arsenal aren't as high as you might imagine) as it becomes a case of topping up/replacing. Winning teams may be able to seel their players for higher prices (these players are after all now seen as winners and there is an element of reflected glory).

I'd like to see a chart that included wages as that's at least as significant as transfers. There's no 'net spend' as wages are going straight out - so you buy a top player for £15m sell him for £15 and that shows you've spent nothing - same as Hull buying a £1m player and selling him for £1m. The difference is that the £15m player may have cost 80k a week or £12m over a three year contract.

I agree with Prestwich_blue that the 'give the manager time' thing is no replacement for money but I'd suggest the position of Spurs and Newcastle in these charts is partly due to switching managers too often. A long term manager only needs to buy two or three players to maintain/renew his team. A new manager usually wants revolution and will often buy eight or more players in a season - then the players he's selling often go cheap because they are seen as failures.

Why are you comparing our owners ambition and spending power with Spurs and Newcastle?

 

[Brucie Bonus]

I found this on another forum:

_______________________________

Very interesting statistic in the Times today.

The last half hour

They did a league table of the premiership, counting points gained in the last half an hour of every game.

Not surprisingly manure was top with................ +16 points
BUT AT THE VERY BOTTOM WAS CITY with........ - 10 points

I'm not too sure what to make of this. My initial reaction is that the last half hour is when the fitness of the team shows, when the drive to win is manifest but also when the tactics can be changed and when appropriate substitutions should be made.

I would be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

________________________________

I've searched The Times on-line and couldn't find it. Perhaps it's only in the print edition. Has anyone seen this?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Rammy Blue - agree with you about Sven (although I'd have given him another season as you simply can't judge on one season) but the point is that at the end of this season, Hughes will at least catch him in win % and may overtake him and early next season (if he's still here) will overtake him in points per game. So by 10 games in next season, Hughes could actually be our most successful Premiership manager.

You have to consider the circumstances.

SGE took over a squad that had finished 14th on 42 points, had practically no pre season and much less money to spend than MH has had. Still we were 4th by christmas, which shows what difference a quality manager can make. Then he had very little money to spend in the january transfer window. The squad was paper thin, so we faded but still finished 9th on 55 points, 13 points better than the previous season.

MH has spent £110 million to improve on that, but will most likely (?) finish 9th-10th on 50 points. Simply not good enough.

Barney, you're wasting you're typing strength. Hughes is the champion of the fake City fan, thick as pig shit and cowardly with it.

Is that the extent of your intellectual argument? If you can't argue without resorting to vile insults like this then you've lost the argument. You've also lost the plot. I'd like an apology.

 

[Kirkstall Blue]

I found this on another forum:

_______________________________

Very interesting statistic in the Times today.

The last half hour

They did a league table of the premiership, counting points gained in the last half an hour of every game.

Not surprisingly manure was top with................ +16 points
BUT AT THE VERY BOTTOM WAS CITY with........ - 10 points

I'm not too sure what to make of this. My initial reaction is that the last half hour is when the fitness of the team shows, when the drive to win is manifest but also when the tactics can be changed and when appropriate substitutions should be made.

I would be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

________________________________

I've searched The Times on-line and couldn't find it. Perhaps it's only in the print edition. Has anyone seen this?

I would be interested to hear every ones view as well.
For me it is down to tactics

 

[bluemoondays]

I found this on another forum:

_______________________________

Very interesting statistic in the Times today.

The last half hour

They did a league table of the premiership, counting points gained in the last half an hour of every game.

Not surprisingly manure was top with................ +16 points
BUT AT THE VERY BOTTOM WAS CITY with........ - 10 points

I'm not too sure what to make of this. My initial reaction is that the last half hour is when the fitness of the team shows, when the drive to win is manifest but also when the tactics can be changed and when appropriate substitutions should be made.

I would be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

________________________________

I've searched The Times on-line and couldn't find it. Perhaps it's only in the print edition. Has anyone seen this?

I would be interested to hear every ones view as well.
For me it is down to tactics

Tactics, fitness yes, but also concentration & experience - maybe some others. You can't put it down to any one thing but it is still a pretty shocking statistic.

 

[tamworthblue]

I'm bumping this so that those of you with half a brain, and can actually be arsed, read the two posts by JMA earlier in this thread. It's a pity he got pissed off with it all and I have to listen to the other crap on here.

MH has two REGULAR Brazillian internationals in the squad FFS. Do you think they want to play like Blackburn and play for a numpty like this?

Get real...he's a bullshitting twat going nowhere fast. If you think the MP's are in the pig trough, just check out the latest spin from MH...'I want to extend my contract'.

Absolute wanker.

 

[Anonymous]

I found this on another forum:

_______________________________

Very interesting statistic in the Times today.

The last half hour

They did a league table of the premiership, counting points gained in the last half an hour of every game.

Not surprisingly manure was top with................ +16 points
BUT AT THE VERY BOTTOM WAS CITY with........ - 10 points

I'm not too sure what to make of this. My initial reaction is that the last half hour is when the fitness of the team shows, when the drive to win is manifest but also when the tactics can be changed and when appropriate substitutions should be made.

I would be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

________________________________

I've searched The Times on-line and couldn't find it. Perhaps it's only in the print edition. Has anyone seen this?

I've said it before on here that I have yet to see evidence of the much vaunted fitness of Hughes' teams.

 

[andypandy]

I reckon its not just one factor, but a combination of several.

First of all, the Rags can bring quality replacements off the bench to change and influence a game - they have arguably the strongest squad in the Premiership. Whereas we have a bench that is average at best with very limited strength in depth. Fortunately this will change in the summer irrespective of who is in charge as we do have the funds available.

Secondly, it is down to tactics as well, without going into any great detail some of Hughes' tactical substitutions have baffled more than a few on here.

That said it is surprising and alarming that we are bottom, fitness, or lack of it must play a part, as well as the collective nous of the players to see a job through and to hold on to what we have got.

I found this on another forum:

_______________________________

Very interesting statistic in the Times today.

The last half hour

They did a league table of the premiership, counting points gained in the last half an hour of every game.

Not surprisingly manure was top with................ +16 points
BUT AT THE VERY BOTTOM WAS CITY with........ - 10 points

I'm not too sure what to make of this. My initial reaction is that the last half hour is when the fitness of the team shows, when the drive to win is manifest but also when the tactics can be changed and when appropriate substitutions should be made.

I would be very interested to hear other people's opinions.

________________________________

I've searched The Times on-line and couldn't find it. Perhaps it's only in the print edition. Has anyone seen this?

I've said it before on here that I have yet to see evidence of the much vaunted fitness of Hughes' teams.

 

[NICKS BACK]

Reality he is doing a more than fair job, I am sure he will have another 18 months minimum, personally, I think he has bought well, additionally i think we have made progress.

Star rating 8 out of 10 will do better

Now F*** O**