I am voting Labour next ....talk me out of it.

Kompany Car said:
Don’t think that response is very fair. Like all things it’s a band around the average. It’s explained in the response where the problem is and that’s with hard left and right having too much of a voice. To me they should be forced to split from the party, Labour and Conservatives for that matter would be much better without them.

As for Rayner if she is soft left then I worry. She’s definitely a Corbynite even though she doesn’t like to admit it and by her own admission is staunchly socialist. She loves the us and them narrative which is divisive and hardly in line with being in a position of power.
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Much of this post is based on a false premise.

Angela Rayner describes herself as a socialist. So what, it's a loose term. Bernie Sanders is also a socialist.

A corbynista?

She has strongly criticised former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, as he "did not command the respect of the party", and critiqued his lack of "discipline" when it came to dealing with allegations of antisemitism.

The hard left do not get prominent coverage.

Corbyn's coverage was overwhelming negative despite his policies mirroring things that are mainstream in France and Germany (public investment banks, publicly owned companies operated independently of government).

How can you place equal blame on the hard left when they have never held the keys to power outside of Liverpool City Council?

We already had parties converge towards the centre in 2010 and 2015. Fuck load of good it did us.
 
I don't have an issue in voting for Stramer, but the Labour shadow cabinet does not fill me with any confidence at all.
I will likely abstain again, they are all a disgrace.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Much of this post is based on a false premise.

Angela Rayner describes herself as a socialist. So what, it's a loose term. Bernie Sanders is also a socialist.

A corbynista?

She has strongly criticised former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, as he "did not command the respect of the party", and critiqued his lack of "discipline" when it came to dealing with allegations of antisemitism.

The hard left do not get prominent coverage.

Corbyn's coverage was overwhelming negative despite his policies mirroring things that are mainstream in France and Germany (public investment banks, publicly owned companies operated independently of government).

How can you place equal blame on the hard left when they have never held the keys to power outside of Liverpool City Council?

We already had parties converge towards the centre in 2010 and 2015. Fuck load of good it did us.
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So socialism is a lose term like Centrist then, OK got that.

Its not blame, it’s allowing them a voice to influence the principles of the party, extreme views on either side of the political divide should be shut down as it fails to serve the vast majority of the electorate.

As regards we had convergence towards the centre and it didn’t work, you can make that argument for all political ideologies, whether that be under Thatcher, Blair, Johnson or even Wilson.

There needs to be some common sense applied and that means ripping everything up and sudden changes of tact need to stop. It needs to be done progressively, do things at a whim and you end up with complete fuck ups like what Truss managed to do.
Whether we like it or not the world is controlled by the financial markets and without their backing you are hamstrung. One thing they don’t like is sudden shocks, so sticking two fingers up to what’s gone before and a complete about face, regardless of if it’s the right thing to do is the wrong approach.
 
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Kompany Car said:
So socialism is a lose term like Centrist then, OK got that.
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Not quite the same. But to elaborate, there is a prominent poster on here who is actually closer to Stalinism Statist commmunism, but still calls himself a socialist.

People may claim to be socialist, or label others socialist MAGA Republicans claiming Joe Biden was a socialist but that doesn't make it true.

What socialism actually means is workers having control of production, by that definition even Corbyn and McDonnell weren't socialists as they never proposed such policies.
 
Mr Kobayashi said:
Not quite the same. But to elaborate, there is a prominent poster on here who is actually closer to Stalinism Statist commmunism, but still calls himself a socialist.

People may claim to be socialist, or label others socialist MAGA Republicans claiming Joe Biden was a socialist but that doesn't make it true.

What socialism actually means is workers having control of production, by that definition even Corbyn and McDonnell weren't socialists as they never proposed such policies.
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Im aware what the definition of socialism is, so why describe yourself as a socialist as Rayner did ? Why not say you believe in social democracy rather than socialism.

What most normal Labour voters want is a social democracy or social liberalism, what they get is socially democratic ideas mixed with stronger socialist principles to pander to the hard left.

The conservatives are no better by the way by having policies around immigration and deportation to Rwanda which are there for the hard right of the party.
 
I think my position is Scandanavian Capitalist. My model template for the country is to be like Denmark.

This means that to some people I am a raving, far-left Socialist. While to others I am not a Socialist at all. It's very confusing.

I do not want us to be like the USA, no way. Nor do I want us to be like East Germany.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
This is the lunatic that they rolled out to champion Trussuneconomics. Absolute sleaze of a plantpot.
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He is on about paying HMRC your taxes look him up - he has a trail of failed businesses most who collapsed owing the taxman - one of them over £500k - how he keeps a straight face is beyond me
 
bluethrunthru said:
He is on about paying HMRC your taxes look him up - he has a trail of failed businesses most who collapsed owing the taxman - one of them over £500k - how he keeps a straight face is beyond me
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He’s a Tory shill, paid there to take the brunt and lie to people.

Why, oh why, do we allow this to happen?
 
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