I don't like the manager

[Didsbury Dave]

Business and football management have not, and never will be the same things.. at least I hope not, for the love of football

I'm sure there are differences between football and business management but essentially managing human beings is managing human beings. In my experience if you don't treat people with respect then they will not respect you back and subsequently you never get the best out of them. I'd say that this is probably even more pronounced in a football world where players are young, wealthy and to all intents and purposes can do what the fuck they like. Never before has it been more important to keep players onside, that's not to say a manager has to try to be pals with the players, that probably wouldn't garner much respect either but if a manager alienates the players these days then he's finished imo.

Bang on the money, LAncet and Crystal, and something which has bugged me about Mancini since he started.

A good manager gets the best from his team by having their respect and trust. YEs he can drive them and discipline them and push them on by whatever means. But if, as a group, they don't buy into him as a person he only has a limited shelf-life. Human beings in any role respond to encouragement, praise and a desire to please. You can't take a one-size-fits-all approach to a football team, especially when that one size is effectively a large stick.

 

[Blue Tooth]

Business and football management have not, and never will be the same things.. at least I hope not, for the love of football

I'm sure there are differences between football and business management but essentially managing human beings is managing human beings. In my experience if you don't treat people with respect then they will not respect you back and subsequently you never get the best out of them. I'd say that this is probably even more pronounced in a football world where players are young, wealthy and to all intents and purposes can do what the fuck they like. Never before has it been more important to keep players onside, that's not to say a manager has to try to be pals with the players, that probably wouldn't garner much respect either but if a manager alienates the players these days then he's finished imo.

I wonder though if his behavior this season is down to the fact that he and possibly key members of the squad knew he was a gonner pretty early doors. Not very conducive to a successful campaign with pretty much the same team with which he won a league and a cup.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

I'm sure there are differences between football and business management but essentially managing human beings is managing human beings. In my experience if you don't treat people with respect then they will not respect you back and subsequently you never get the best out of them. I'd say that this is probably even more pronounced in a football world where players are young, wealthy and to all intents and purposes can do what the fuck they like. Never before has it been more important to keep players onside, that's not to say a manager has to try to be pals with the players, that probably wouldn't garner much respect either but if a manager alienates the players these days then he's finished imo.

Can you ever fully have the respect of some of these modern footballers though? They are so far removed from rational conditions they are almost unmanageable.

You mentioned Ferguson, the most ruthless human being imaginable as an almost father figure to his players, which he was, when it suited him. As soon as those very same players he put an arm around stopped being 'productive' they were sacked, uncerimonously from the football club. Stam, Keane, Yorke, Cole all went to war for him, and when they were no longer useful, they were dumped. He has fallen out with players and staff, the difference is he was backed by the board.

Mancini is not the ogre he is made out to be. He had an almost undying love for Mario. He says nice things about players in the press too. Especially ones not getting a game. He always says he wishes he could pick 13 players and such... as the great man says himself.. "this is football, only this"

 

[Lancet Fluke]

ok, instead of moaning about the thread, could you contribute, perhaps?

Do you think the manager of a football club has the right to be critical of underperforming facets of the club?

What happens though if the manager himself is part of the "underperforming facet". He's gone a lot has been said. I thank him for what he has done and hope he enjoys the rest of his life. But MCFC carries on and we were right to get rid, he had taken us backwards this year.

Every club will go through stages where they go backwards to an extent. It doesn't necessarily have to be terminal.

I'd agree with this. It all depends on the extent of the regression and the reasons for the regression, I suppose. I am assuming that those behind the scenes at the club have made assertions as to why there has been such regression and come to the conclusion that Mancini would have really struggled to turn it back around. From my point of view it did look terminal because to me it looked like he had lost the dressing room (for want of a better phrase) and I don't think managers ever really turn that around. The alternative to sacking Mancini would have been to change most of the playing squad and even then there would have been a genuine possibility that he would have ended up in the same situation again in a couple of years with his new players, given his management style. Just my opinion obviously.

 

[mick10]

He is gone, get over it and stop starting shit, look at me threads when this hysterical rant could have easily gone in one of the other threads!

ok, instead of moaning about the thread, could you contribute, perhaps?

Do you think the manager of a football club has the right to be critical of underperforming facets of the club?

What happens though if the manager himself is part of the "underperforming facet". He's gone a lot has been said. I thank him for what he has done and hope he enjoys the rest of his life. But MCFC carries on and we were right to get rid, he had taken us backwards this year.

Your expectations were? To win league again, the FA cup and maybe semis of CL?
Next season? The league again, the FA cup, CL final and maybe a league cup.
Next season????????????????????????? And so on, and so on until we could never be defeated by anyone. Ever.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Didn't three blokes get thrown out of Abu Dhabi recently for being too handsome ? Maybe that's why we've got rid of Bobby and appointed the King of the Lizard People.

 

[Esteban de la Sexface]

Didn't three blokes get thrown out of Abu Dhabi recently for being too handsome ? Maybe that's why we've got rid of Bobby and appointed the King of the Lizard People.

Pellegrinis' nose aligns better with the Eastern market.

Speaking of which there is a news story running here in Ireland about a lad getting jail in Dubai for getting noshed in the back of a taxi.

 

[Jaques]

He had an almost undying love for Mario.

This is past, but are you sure that was undying love for Mario and not perhaps undying love for money?

I mean that undying "love" cost the club few millions. Don't forget, Balotelli was dumped by Mourinho from 1st Inter team, so I am sure that Balo's price of £24 mil. is way too much, and Mancini purchased him for that money, and than sold to Milan for less than €20 mil. Someone earned easy money. So who was crucial person in all those Balo's transfers in Inter, City and Milan? Roberto Mancini. Inter had profit on Balo £23,7 mil.

 

[crystal_mais]

DD, is there any substance at all to the claim you made about Joe and Vinny wanting to leave because of Mancini?

Let's have it straight.

You say the club don't see him as the right man. What constitutes the club? The business men don't see him as the right man as he ruffled a few feathers, fair enough. That is not the club. Ask the fans who will be chanting his name for the next 2 games who is the right man to take us forward. It certainly won't be Marwood or Kloss.

I had faith that given the right transfer targets, Mancini would have improved us again to be extremely competitive on all fronts.

He is a victim of his own success. He won the league ahead of the "projected curve" set out by the business men. With the investments made versus those made by our competition we were never, ever going to compete on 2 fronts, especially with injuries and under performing stars and Bobby having to constantly fight against the press. I wish him well and hope we don't get Pellegrini in. I just have a gut feeling it won't work

Wrong on all accounts

The owner & board drive the strategy to take this club forward. Not us fans. We are a big part of the club but not "THE" main part of the club.

We do not (example):-
- Manage the players
- Pay the wages of the staff
- Bring in corporate sponsorship
- Negotiate transfers
- Pay the bills
- and many more activities

I'm a Practitioner in Management, I work for an organisation where I manage a team of 20 people with budgets in excess of £20m. You have to learn to manage your people (simple) if you are a footballer or a fucking tea lady. If you do not manage your people, productivity and belief in your abilities will always drop and then you have problems.

The Pisscan Ferguson was excellent at how he looked after his men. Even during his last speech. He said how much he believed in his players and kept asking to believe in themselves and literally bigs his men up. He does give the hairdrier but he also put his arms around shoulders. Now look at how successful he has been and how his teams performed.

As great as what he had done for our club - he just created too many fires. Lets hope he learns from this experience

OK you mention productivity. I don't think it is a good reference for a football discussion. You are obviously a very talented business man so I'll use a business like metaphor. The manager of a production company identifies 2 new machines that will increase productivity in order to compete in the new European market. The business director sees things differently and decides to buy new, unproven machines that are relatively cheaper than the machines identified by the production manager. These new machines have a negative impact on productivity as they are too slow and cannot perform at the times outlined by the production manager.

Business and football management have not, and never will be the same things.. at least I hope not, for the love of football

We are talking people not machines. Employees be it footballers, tea ladies, software engineers, managers or whatever are people first and skills come second.

His biggest flaw was his behaviour - from what I am reading - that rubs off on people. Using your analogy - not treating a super fast machine with the care and attention that is needed will ultimately reduce it's efficiency quicker

 

[moomba]

I'd agree with this. It all depends on the extent of the regression and the reasons for the regression, I suppose. I am assuming that those behind the scenes at the club have made assertions as to why there has been such regression and come to the conclusion that Mancini would have really struggled to turn it back around. From my point of view it did look terminal because to me it looked like he had lost the dressing room (for want of a better phrase) and I don't think managers ever really turn that around. The alternative to sacking Mancini would have been to change most of the playing squad and even then there would have been a genuine possibility that he would have ended up in the same situation again in a couple of years with his new players, given his management style. Just my opinion obviously.

In the long run they get paid the big money to make those decisions. If it works out, fantastic. If it doesn't they are the ones that will be held accountable. So whether I agree with the decision or not, only time will tell whether it was a good one.

I disagree that we would have needed drastic changes if Mancini stayed. But I guess it doesn't really matter now.