Irish Current Affairs.

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Its almost as if people think that if there was a Border poll everything will be OK.

Some speak of just giving NI back to the Irish....as if its theirs to give away

Some speak of a vote for a United Ireland will make all the terrorist problems go away

The Irish situation is separate from that of Brexit. It goes back much much further....it is not a solution to Brexit. You think it is because it doesnt serve what you want.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

As a unionist i dont want to lose NI from the UK, the people of NI should be the ones to decide their own fate.

This point though....thats proper bullshit...there is literally no consequence to you if there were a United Ireland. Essentially i am a Unionist, i (for some god-foresaken reason) want to remain part of the UK.....so the outcome of a United Ireland are absolutely huge for me

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Its almost as if people think that if there was a Border poll everything will be OK.

Some speak of just giving NI back to the Irish....as if its theirs to give away

Some speak of a vote for a United Ireland will make all the terrorist problems go away

The Irish situation is separate from that of Brexit. It goes back much much further....it is not a solution to Brexit. You think it is because it doesnt serve what you want.

You know Alex, we come from different sides of the divide and different backgrounds, but I 100% support your view on this whole debacle.

 

[mexico1970]

Its almost as if people think that if there was a Border poll everything will be OK.

Some speak of just giving NI back to the Irish....as if its theirs to give away

Some speak of a vote for a United Ireland will make all the terrorist problems go away

The Irish situation is separate from that of Brexit. It goes back much much further....it is not a solution to Brexit. You think it is because it doesnt serve what you want.

You've just explained why I don't care about what happens over there, independence will cause terrorism, doing nothing will cause terrorism as for terrorism we have had it daily weekly monthly for decades now.

 

[blueinsa]

This is not a slight on you specifically, but this is just a fuckin cop out.

Send in the troops you say?....i think they tried that before...dont think it had a very good outcome.

Forcing a reunification poll / border poll is NOT the answer....there is no desire for it as its far too close to call. A border poll cannot be used as a solution to Brexit....they are two VERY different issues.

All you, and many are saying is...oh shit we have a huge unaccounted for problem, that we brought....however if we just deflect it back on to them, we can wash our hands of it and say it was "the will of the people".

Essentially you are saying that the people of NI have to decide the outcome of Brexit whilst being forced to reignite all of the grief of the past. Its not on.

I wasn't saying send in the troops but yes, absolutely id use the SAS and similar units covertly where needed to eliminate threats to ordinary citizens lives and safety.

As for a future ref on the question of the border/membership of the EU then someone will have to decide and who better than the people of NI? Would you sooner Westminster decided for you as that also isn't going to work.

Essentially I am saying its for the people of NI to decide if they want to continue being within and under EU rules for trade which treats the whole of Ireland as one.

My point was if the vote was to do that then its almost a defacto vote for reunification or at least a marker as to the feeling towards it.

Whats clear is the issue of the border isn't one that is going to stop the UK leaving the EU so solutions no matter how imperfect are going to have to be found and agreed upon and treating the whole of Ireland as one for trade seems about right because its no different to what you have now and its what you all seemingly want?

That said im not from or living there and i hope the above doesnt come across as disrespectful because it isn't meant to be.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

You've just explained why I don't care about what happens over there, independence will cause terrorism, doing nothing will cause terrorism as for terrorism we have had it daily weekly monthly for decades now.

you've had terrorism daily, weekly, monthly have you?

nice

 

[blueinsa]

you've had terrorism daily, weekly, monthly have you?

nice

What is the solution then mate?

Just shy of 350,000 fellow citizens voted to leave when asked a question.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I wasn't saying send in the troops but yes, absolutely id use the SAS and similar units covertly where needed to eliminate threats to ordinary citizens lives and safety.

As for a future ref on the question of the border/membership of the EU then someone will have to decide and who better than the people of NI? Would you sooner Westminster decided for you as that also isn't going to work.

Essentially I am saying its for the people of NI to decide if they want to continue being within and under EU rules for trade which treats the whole of Ireland as one.

My point was if the vote was to do that then its almost a defacto vote for reunification or at least a marker as to the feeling towards it.

Whats clear is the issue of the border isn't one that is going to stop the UK leaving the EU so solutions no matter how imperfect are going to have to be found and agreed upon and treating the whole of Ireland as one for trade seems about right because its no different to what you have now and its what you all seemingly want?

That said im not from or living there and i hope the above doesn't come across as disrespectful because it isn't meant to be.

BI there's nothing wrong in your point of view, in my opinion. It is a logical way out of the backstop, but what Alex is saying is that the border poll was never envisaged as a mechanism to sort a Brexit problem. It may seem like the answer, but depending on the outcome it will either be a nice walkaway option for England/Britain (look at previous post, a lot would love nothing more), or condemn the nationalist community and maybe others to defining themselves as British forever. That's not what it was designed for either.

As I and Alex have both stated numerous times they are two entirely different things.

Currently, I do believe that the red lines in the GFA have to be adhered to but like your suggestion highlighted above, I see that as a starting point.
If any UK government is sincere in sorting this element out then an extension is needed and the same care and thought needs to go into legally binding GFA red lines into a solution/decision that arises, both ways from a referendum on what essentially is still Brexit. (Not the re-Unification of Ireland)

 

[Saddleworth2]

I would have posted that in the Brexit thread too....as i think it worth reading....but probably a bit too much of a tangent

You probably should put it there as it is relevant to one of the biggest Brexit impasses - the irish border. Not sure how much thoughtful discussion you would get though.

 

[blueinsa]

BI there's nothing wrong in your point of view, in my opinion. It is a logical way out of the backstop, but what Alex is saying is that the border poll was never envisaged as a mechanism to sort a Brexit problem. It may seem like the answer, but depending on the outcome it will either be a nice walkaway option for England/Britain (look at previous post, a lot would love nothing more), or condemn the nationalist community and maybe others to defining themselves as British forever. That's not what it was designed for either.

As I and Alex have both stated numerous times they are two entirely different things.

Currently, I do believe that the red lines in the GFA have to be adhered to but like your suggestion highlighted above, I see that as a starting point.
If any UK government is sincere in sorting this element out then an extension is needed and the same care and thought needs to go into legally binding GFA red lines into a solution/decision that arises, both ways from a referendum on what essentially is still Brexit. (Not the re-Unification of Ireland)

I am going to back out of this for the day as i dont want to cause upset or come across as disrespectful.