Joycee Banercheck
Well-Known Member
11 pages. It took you that long? I'd rather say Mancini is shite, but I'll give him more than 11 pages on bluemoon.Aussie! said:
Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]
- Thread starter Outrun
- Start date
the--dud said:
Yeah, but they have the right to do so until our midfielders actually start acting like box-to-box midfielders. During spring they acted like three DMs, didn't have enough creativity which stopped us from gaining possession and moving upwards. They had to spend much time defensively.
This year they'll show their true colors when we have possession and they advance up, but Spurs played good yesterday and we couldn't really utilize them in the right way. But we will soon. Any blind donkey must have seen that Barry played a more advanced role yesterday than he ever has done before though.
I think De Jong did it very very well yesterday, as his deep DM role. Both Yaya and Barry seemed to position themselves good too. Looking forward to see these three guys getting to know eachother better out on the field.
As the commentator kept saying, "Spurs play as a team, City play as individuals". It's not weird since this is the first 90 minutes they have together. I'm really happy we could get 1 point at WHT while playing "as individuals".
1.618034 said:
It's incredible how they always get it wrong, I don't get it. We haven't played true 4-4-2 for a long time. Even when we played 4-5-1 they lined up us as 4-4-2. When we changed to something else, well then they changed to 4-5-1 and put Tevez as central midfielder.
birchwoodgingerste said:
If we wanted a left DM (which doesn't exist now though) we'd buy a DM, not play a left back / left midfielder there. Just because he's left footed and good defensively, doesn't make him a great (left) DM. So much more is needed for that role. Plus Mancini said yesterday that the Luiz deal isn't happening.
I agree about the shape though, really happy to see that. Everyone seemed to know what they were doing.
1.618034
Well-Known Member
Good article that was posted in the "Passing Side?" thread from Zonal Marking...
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/tottenham-0-0-man-city-spurs-dominate-but-hart-keeps-it-level/#more-4021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/ ... #more-4021</a>
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/tottenham-0-0-man-city-spurs-dominate-but-hart-keeps-it-level/#more-4021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/ ... #more-4021</a>
Tottenham 0-0 Man City: Spurs dominate but Hart keeps it level
August 15, 2010
The starting line-ups
An excellent game to get the new Premier League season up and running. No goals, but tremendous entertainment and some interesting tactical elements too.
Tottenham lined up with ten of the eleven who were involved in the penultimate game of last season against City – Vedran Corluka in for Younes Kaboul was the only changed.
Roberto Mancini chose to field new signings Aleksandar Kolarov, David Silva and Yaya Toure, in a defensive-minded 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 that essentially featured three holding midfielders.
The key to the game was all about who could control the tempo. The two sides had completely different approaches – Spurs played quick balls to the wingers who looked to run at the City full-backs, and they played at an incredibly high tempo as they dominated the opening period.
Spurs had a host of efforts on goal in the first 15 minutes but found Joe Hart in excellent form – he made multiple outstanding saves to deny Tottenham. Most of the chances came when Spurs got the ball wide and got crosses in – direct balls to the front two were dealt with reasonably well by Kolo Toure and Vincent Kompany.
City struggled to maintain possession of the ball early on, despite their three central midfielders, and therefore were unable to slow the pace of the game. Hart hit a couple of hopeless long balls towards Tevez upfront, where he had little chance of getting the better of Michael Dawson and Ledley King in the air. Tottenham were defending with two solid banks of four, but City rarely looked to get their midfielders or full-backs into attacking positions early on, so they were often faced with a 3 v 8 situation when trying to break down the Spurs defence.
City improve
Eventually Spurs had to drop the pressure slightly after their frantic opening to the game, and City gradually grew into the contest – the more they had possession, the more their shape had an interesting look to it. Tevez played possibly the most exaggerated false nine role possible – picking up the ball in incredibly deep positions and letting Silva and Shaun Wright-Phillips attempt diagonal, out-in runs in behind the Spurs defence.
Meanwhile, the three central midfielders had one clear job – to keep the ball. The amazing pass completion rates of Gareth Barry (56 out of 59), Yaya Toure (68 out of 70, below) and Nigel de Jong (55 out of 59) demonstrate that, and the more they kept the ball, the better defensive job they did (remember, Sid Lowe believes Spain’s tiki-taka style is a better defensive tactic than attacking one).
by Guardian Chalkboards
The primary reason for this was that they forced Tottenham into abandoning their two-striker formation, as one of them (generally Defoe) was forced to drop back deep into midfield and help out. Often he would try and get goalside of one of the City’s midfielders, but on another occasion he found himself tracking Kolarov’s run from left-back – with City outnumbering Spurs 3 v 2 in the centre of midfield, Aaron Lennon was sometimes forced inside and left Kolarov free.
Spurs still on top
That said, Spurs were still creating the better chances, and it’s difficult to understand what they were doing wrong other than not providing the finishing touches to some excellent moves. This was seemingly what Harry Redknapp thought too, for he chose to remove the ineffectual Crouch-Defoe partnership in favour of Roman Pavlyuchenko and Robbie Keane midway through the second half, rather than actually changing the formation as a whole, or substituting players involved in build-up play.
Kolarov’s half-time injury may have helped City, because his replacement Pablo Zabaleta dealt far better with Aaron Lennon. This seemed to allow Micah Richards to push on on the opposite side (in the first half, Kolarov had been the main attacking threat) and he started to push Bale into more defensive positions.
In the second half both sides became slightly tired – maybe to be expected on the opening day of the season, and considering the nature of the first 15 minutes. City’s ball retention meant the pace of the game slowed and it became a more static contest, although Barry took up more advanced and wider positions, playing almost as a carrilero rather than a basic central midfielder.
No goals
What both sides lacked was a central midfielder looking to connect with the strikers – City’s central three were conservative, whilst Luka Modric and Tom Huddlestone combined only completed two passes to any of the four strikers that featured for Spurs, partly as a result of being up against a three, partly because that was Spurs’ gameplan.
The game deserved a goal, but on the opening day, a draw between last season’s 4th and 5th-placed sides was perhaps to be expected.
Conclusion
Little to talk about from a tactical point of view about Spurs, though they were the better side, creating more chances. Hart was the best player on the pitch by some distance, and on a few occasions Spurs lacked a little luck.
Mancini’s defensive-minded formation will come in for some criticism, but one suspects he got the result he was looking for. The three central midfielders actually did their job rather well, but Tevez dropped too deep considering neither Silva nor Wright-Phillips were comfortable in becoming the temporary centre-forward when he did. Wright-Phillips wasted City’s best chance, through on goal with a bouncing ball, but he didn’t even manage to get a shot away.
With so many new arrivals it’s difficult to predict City’s formation, but this 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 might be Mancini’s preferred system for ‘big’ games, particularly tricky away trips. It needs some refining, but he’s not too far away from something that works quite nicely.
I'm one of those who want to see Robinho in a City jersey this season, but what will the line-up look like?
This is what I would do:
Against teams not so great:
---------------------------------Hart---------------------------------------
-----------Boateng--------Kolo----------Kompany--------Kolarov------------
-----------------------------Yaya----Milner--------------------------------
------------------Mario-------Silva---------Robinho----------------------
--------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------
I know Milner isn't a defensive midfielder, but I think he could play this role very vell
Against better teams:
---------------------------------Hart---------------------------------------
-----------Boateng--------Kolo----------Kompany--------Kolarov------------
-----------------------------Yaya----De Jong------------------------------
---------------Robinho-------Milner--------Silva-------------------------
--------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------
I love Mario, but he is still young.. Not sure he would like this though. And If the 1st one works out, you can use it more often. Or do you think Robinho will be the one coming off the bench????
I'm Norwegian so don't flame me if my English is bad, and I know I'm far off topic but I would appreciate some responses.
This is what I would do:
Against teams not so great:
---------------------------------Hart---------------------------------------
-----------Boateng--------Kolo----------Kompany--------Kolarov------------
-----------------------------Yaya----Milner--------------------------------
------------------Mario-------Silva---------Robinho----------------------
--------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------
I know Milner isn't a defensive midfielder, but I think he could play this role very vell
Against better teams:
---------------------------------Hart---------------------------------------
-----------Boateng--------Kolo----------Kompany--------Kolarov------------
-----------------------------Yaya----De Jong------------------------------
---------------Robinho-------Milner--------Silva-------------------------
--------------------------------Tevez--------------------------------------
I love Mario, but he is still young.. Not sure he would like this though. And If the 1st one works out, you can use it more often. Or do you think Robinho will be the one coming off the bench????
I'm Norwegian so don't flame me if my English is bad, and I know I'm far off topic but I would appreciate some responses.
1.618034 said:Good article that was posted in the "Passing Side?" thread from Zonal Marking...
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/tottenham-0-0-man-city-spurs-dominate-but-hart-keeps-it-level/#more-4021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/08/15/ ... #more-4021</a>
Tottenham 0-0 Man City: Spurs dominate but Hart keeps it level
August 15, 2010
The starting line-ups
An excellent game to get the new Premier League season up and running. No goals, but tremendous entertainment and some interesting tactical elements too.
Tottenham lined up with ten of the eleven who were involved in the penultimate game of last season against City – Vedran Corluka in for Younes Kaboul was the only changed.
Roberto Mancini chose to field new signings Aleksandar Kolarov, David Silva and Yaya Toure, in a defensive-minded 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 that essentially featured three holding midfielders.
The key to the game was all about who could control the tempo. The two sides had completely different approaches – Spurs played quick balls to the wingers who looked to run at the City full-backs, and they played at an incredibly high tempo as they dominated the opening period.
Spurs had a host of efforts on goal in the first 15 minutes but found Joe Hart in excellent form – he made multiple outstanding saves to deny Tottenham. Most of the chances came when Spurs got the ball wide and got crosses in – direct balls to the front two were dealt with reasonably well by Kolo Toure and Vincent Kompany.
City struggled to maintain possession of the ball early on, despite their three central midfielders, and therefore were unable to slow the pace of the game. Hart hit a couple of hopeless long balls towards Tevez upfront, where he had little chance of getting the better of Michael Dawson and Ledley King in the air. Tottenham were defending with two solid banks of four, but City rarely looked to get their midfielders or full-backs into attacking positions early on, so they were often faced with a 3 v 8 situation when trying to break down the Spurs defence.
City improve
Eventually Spurs had to drop the pressure slightly after their frantic opening to the game, and City gradually grew into the contest – the more they had possession, the more their shape had an interesting look to it. Tevez played possibly the most exaggerated false nine role possible – picking up the ball in incredibly deep positions and letting Silva and Shaun Wright-Phillips attempt diagonal, out-in runs in behind the Spurs defence.
Meanwhile, the three central midfielders had one clear job – to keep the ball. The amazing pass completion rates of Gareth Barry (56 out of 59), Yaya Toure (68 out of 70, below) and Nigel de Jong (55 out of 59) demonstrate that, and the more they kept the ball, the better defensive job they did (remember, Sid Lowe believes Spain’s tiki-taka style is a better defensive tactic than attacking one).
by Guardian Chalkboards
The primary reason for this was that they forced Tottenham into abandoning their two-striker formation, as one of them (generally Defoe) was forced to drop back deep into midfield and help out. Often he would try and get goalside of one of the City’s midfielders, but on another occasion he found himself tracking Kolarov’s run from left-back – with City outnumbering Spurs 3 v 2 in the centre of midfield, Aaron Lennon was sometimes forced inside and left Kolarov free.
Spurs still on top
That said, Spurs were still creating the better chances, and it’s difficult to understand what they were doing wrong other than not providing the finishing touches to some excellent moves. This was seemingly what Harry Redknapp thought too, for he chose to remove the ineffectual Crouch-Defoe partnership in favour of Roman Pavlyuchenko and Robbie Keane midway through the second half, rather than actually changing the formation as a whole, or substituting players involved in build-up play.
Kolarov’s half-time injury may have helped City, because his replacement Pablo Zabaleta dealt far better with Aaron Lennon. This seemed to allow Micah Richards to push on on the opposite side (in the first half, Kolarov had been the main attacking threat) and he started to push Bale into more defensive positions.
In the second half both sides became slightly tired – maybe to be expected on the opening day of the season, and considering the nature of the first 15 minutes. City’s ball retention meant the pace of the game slowed and it became a more static contest, although Barry took up more advanced and wider positions, playing almost as a carrilero rather than a basic central midfielder.
No goals
What both sides lacked was a central midfielder looking to connect with the strikers – City’s central three were conservative, whilst Luka Modric and Tom Huddlestone combined only completed two passes to any of the four strikers that featured for Spurs, partly as a result of being up against a three, partly because that was Spurs’ gameplan.
The game deserved a goal, but on the opening day, a draw between last season’s 4th and 5th-placed sides was perhaps to be expected.
Conclusion
Little to talk about from a tactical point of view about Spurs, though they were the better side, creating more chances. Hart was the best player on the pitch by some distance, and on a few occasions Spurs lacked a little luck.
Mancini’s defensive-minded formation will come in for some criticism, but one suspects he got the result he was looking for. The three central midfielders actually did their job rather well, but Tevez dropped too deep considering neither Silva nor Wright-Phillips were comfortable in becoming the temporary centre-forward when he did. Wright-Phillips wasted City’s best chance, through on goal with a bouncing ball, but he didn’t even manage to get a shot away.
With so many new arrivals it’s difficult to predict City’s formation, but this 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 might be Mancini’s preferred system for ‘big’ games, particularly tricky away trips. It needs some refining, but he’s not too far away from something that works quite nicely.
What a great article. There's me thinking i'd seen a totally different match to the one I read in the match reports & on BM.
I thought we played really well, containing an excellent Spurs team, given the new players & new formation on show. RM has only had a few days to work with some of these players.
A real change to read a proper tactical & technical appraisal of the match from an impartial observer. How refreshing.
-------------Hart--------------
Boateng Toure Kompany Kolarov
--------Yaya-----Milner-------
A.Johnson---Silva------Balotelli
------------Tevez-------------
Or:
-------------Hart--------------
Boateng Toure Kompany Kolarov
--------Yaya-----Milner-------
Tevez-------Silva------Balotelli
-----------Adebayor----------
Boateng Toure Kompany Kolarov
--------Yaya-----Milner-------
A.Johnson---Silva------Balotelli
------------Tevez-------------
Or:
-------------Hart--------------
Boateng Toure Kompany Kolarov
--------Yaya-----Milner-------
Tevez-------Silva------Balotelli
-----------Adebayor----------
this is one of the best thread here, very enlightening. I salute the OP outrun for starting it and great analysis. interesting perspective and make it more interesting watching the game.
we can have a better picture where is Mancini's coming from....if it works or not is another thing.
keep this going, cheers...
we can have a better picture where is Mancini's coming from....if it works or not is another thing.
keep this going, cheers...
TFC
Well-Known Member
Good read this. Was gobsmacked to learn that we had 61% possession, but bearing in mind Spurs full on style of attack, it doesnt leave them with much time to actually possess the ball.
I think once Mario joins up with the squad, he could play in that lone forward role a little more comfortably that Tevez did, and he, Carlos and Silva interchanging positions is going to keep a lot of defenders on their toes. Add to that Milner who can get up and down with no bother, pushing up with Toure and leaving Nige to protect the back 4, this system could work really effectively.
--------------Joe
Boateng--Kolo--Vinnie---Kolarov
--------------Nige
---------Yaya----Milner
Mario-------Tevez-------Silva (all interchanging positions)
Will be really interested to see how we line up against the dippers next week.
I think once Mario joins up with the squad, he could play in that lone forward role a little more comfortably that Tevez did, and he, Carlos and Silva interchanging positions is going to keep a lot of defenders on their toes. Add to that Milner who can get up and down with no bother, pushing up with Toure and leaving Nige to protect the back 4, this system could work really effectively.
--------------Joe
Boateng--Kolo--Vinnie---Kolarov
--------------Nige
---------Yaya----Milner
Mario-------Tevez-------Silva (all interchanging positions)
Will be really interested to see how we line up against the dippers next week.
Keith Moon
Well-Known Member
Its all about possession, after christmas we will have a average possession time around 70%. Knock on wood..