Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

[okstate99]

Time for the brains of this thread to, explain Milners role again. Its exciting times, and cant wait till I see Gerrad, facing, Milner, and Yaya.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

No it's not,it's what you do with it when you've got it & if you are hoping that things will change after Xmas for the better does that mean you think we will be poor until then.

Now, granted it's not "all about possession" but making 621 passes away to Spurs is astonishing, and deserves more credit than it's getting on here.

Yes, you need to create chances, and yes, I want us to create more. I'm sure that in future we'll sacrifice some ball retention ability in order to pose more threat, but given the unfamiliarity of our team their ability to one-touch pass their way out of trouble was jaw.dropping at times.

We should celebrate the footballing ability of our midfielders and defence, even in a game where we didn't get the balance quite right.

That will come, but most teams won't get a sniff of the ball against us. They will find it very hard.

You're right that possession in itself is meaningless-it's a means to an end after all-but the footballing ability of our team cannot be ignored and will win us a lot of games.

It's a means that will produce a lot of end over the course of the season.

Once we got organised I found this very encouraging too.

There were too many players looking for little passes in "the hole" but that will change with Ade or Baletolli on the field.

It's been a long long time since we had a City side who could keep the ball.

In fact I don't think I can remember one...!

 

[Gorton Gruff]

Squad 25. "Home Grown" – 11 (h); Not “Home Grown” - 14; Under 21

Goalkeepers
Hart(h), Given(h), Taylor(h),

Defence
Full backs:
RB: Boateng, Richards(h), Zabaleta,
LB: Kolarov, Bridge(h), Cunningham(u21),
Centre backs:
RCB: Toure(K), Boyata(u21),
LCB: Lescott(h),Kompany, Mee(u21)

Midfield
Defensive midfield: De Jong, Vieira, Ibrahim(u21),
Central midfield: Toure(Y), Milner(h), Barry(h), Johnson(M)(h)
Wide midfield: Johnson(A)(h), SWP(h)
Attacking midfield: Silva, Robinho,

Attack
Tevez, Adebayor, Balotelli(u21),Santa Cruz, Jo, Nimely(u21),

Not included:
Logan(h), Vidal(h),
GK: Gonzales, Nielsen

Elite development – under 21 : (Combination of loan out and some limited first team opportunities)
GK: Karius
RB: Trippier
Attacking midfield: Tutte
Attack: Guidetti, Ball

What is impressive is the number of versatile multi-position players such as Kompany, Boateng, Zabaleta, Milner, Silva, Yaya Toure; this is a big strength; as is the increase in number of players who are comfortable with both feet.<br /><br />-- Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:51 pm --<br /><br />Milner can play defensive midfield, central midfield (left and right), wide midfield (left and right), and attacking midfield.

That and the fact he is likely to be our highest scoring midfield player after Silva is why we signed him - he scored 11 for Villa last season.

Most formations we play will depend on DeJong and Tevez.
#DeJong is our least versatile player, but at the defensive midfield role he plays he is one of the best. Sometimes he will be required (likely against the best opposition) sometimes we can play a more expansive game.
#Tevez just does what he does, the rest of the team have to play around him, he is the one player Mancini cannot give a tactical role to, Silva is an inteligent enough footballer to handle that - when Tevez takes his space he will find space somewhere else.

Defence - settled formation with attacking fullbacks
Hart (Given)
Boateng (Richards) - Toure (Kompany/Boyata) - Kompany (Lescott) - Kolarov (Bridge)

1. Strong formation: 4 - 3(1+2) - 3(2+1)
Midfield: DM: De Jong - RM: Yaya Toure (Milner), LM: Milner (Barry)
Attack midfield: Tevez, Silva (Robinho, Johnson, SWP)
Forward: Adebayor (Ballotelli)

2. Dominant formation: 4 - 4 - 2
Midfield: Wide RM: Milner (SWP/Zabaleta), Central RM: Yaya Toure (Milner), Central LM: Milner (Barry), Wide LM: Silva (Johnson, Robinho)
Attack: Tevez, Adebayor (Ballotelli)

3. Attacking formation - 4-4-2
Midfield: WRM: Johnson (SWP), CM: Yaya Toure, Milner (Barry), WLM: Silva (Johnson, Robinho)
Attack: Tevez, Adebayor (Ballotelli)

4. Goalscoring formation - 4 - 3 - 3
Midfield: WRM: Johnson (SWP), CM: Yaya Toure, Milner (Barry), WLM: Silva (Johnson)
Attack: Right: Ballotelli (Nimely) Centre: Tevez (RSC) Left: Adebayor (Robinho, Jo)

We now have a variety of formations to utilise according to home or away, opposition, and during a match (need to dominate, close shop, retrieve a goal deficit etc.)

 

[Outrun]

I really can't understand why people still keep claiming Silva play a wide left winger role.

I did this image that hopefully shows how obvious it is. Silva passes against Spurs compared to Bellamy in a match last season against Liverpool. It's obvious that Bellamy acted as a winger while Silva has a much more free role.

Time for the brains of this thread to, explain Milners role again. Its exciting times, and cant wait till I see Gerrad, facing, Milner, and Yaya.

Maybe you figured out, but I think we all here seem to believe he'll just take either Yaya's or Barry's role, depending on their fitness etc.

Hey guys,

I think that Mancini needs to adapt his tactics to accomodate all the new players at City... and fast.

I have just written a blog about it that will interest you, check it out:
<a class="postlink" href="http://d...lse;">http://dominicpollard.blogspot.com/</a>

Nice article, I don't agree on some points though.

Their tricky opening game against Tottenham revealed two key problems for me. Having three defensive midfielders was overly negative and playing Tevez upfront by himself wasted his great strength of being a perfect secondary striker, doing the donkey work for another front-man to thrive off.

To me I don't think we played three DM's. I don't see Yaya as a DM and I don't see Barry as a DM (on club level, he has that role in the national team). Barry and Yaya both acted as box-to-box central midfielders, and in the second half Barry almost drifted as a far as an attacking midfielder at times.

I agree on Tevez though, but I don't think we'll have that issue anymore with Balotelli entering. Not really sure why he played SWP ahead of Adebayor but I guess he had his reasons.

How can Barry, De Jong, Yaya Toure, Milner, Wright-Phillips, Johnson, Tevez, Adebayor, Silva and Balotelli, not to mention Jo, Santa Cruz and Vieira, best be played together? Who will be left on the bench? How will big players react to being left out?

Let me show you:
--- De Jong--
Yaya ----- Milner
------------------
Tevez - Balotelli - Silva

Bench: Barry, Johnson, SWP, Adebayor, Vieira

(Santa Cruz being sold)

We'll play over 60 matches this season, even with rotation all the bench players might be involved in over 40 matches this season through subs and injuries. Which is almost a whole regular season for a team that don't get far in any cups.

What's so good about Mancini's players are that they are incredibly versatile. We don't have a Nani who only play as winger (am I wrong? Or is Fergie transforming him?), all our players can play on multiple positions without any hassle.

 

[Damocles]

You cannot compare Bellamy against Dippers and Silva against Spurs.

Firstly, Liverpool's first choice right back in Johnson is horrifically poor defensively. Secondly, Silva played coming from the left in what was essentially a 4-6-0 away from home. There was no real space to work in. On top of this, Liverpool wasn't Bellamy's debut and he knew his place in the team.

Finally, the biggest point that you are missing, is that those chalkboard will be skewed simply because he moved Silva to the right because Lennon was tearing us apart and we needed the more defensive SWP on the left.

 

[Outrun]

You cannot compare Bellamy against Dippers and Silva against Spurs.

Firstly, Liverpool's first choice right back in Johnson is horrifically poor defensively. Secondly, Silva played coming from the left in what was essentially a 4-6-0 away from home. There was no real space to work in. On top of this, Liverpool wasn't Bellamy's debut and he knew his place in the team.

Finally, the biggest point that you are missing, is that those chalkboard will be skewed simply because he moved Silva to the right because Lennon was tearing us apart and we needed the more defensive SWP on the left.

You need to see where the passes are taken from. The circle's are where the player stands and the arrow where the pass is aimed. On Bellamy's picture all passes are taken from the side towards the center. On Silva's picture it's spread all over, being taken from the sides, from the center, aimed to the sides or center.

Bellamy worked much more defensively than Silva did, who didn't have to go back that much thanks to our midfield. It was pretty obvious when Spurs had the ball, SWP had a much more attacking position than he used to.

Here's Bellamy against Spurs in May:

Most of his passes coming from the far side.

I do realize Silva has to get used to our formation but it's not hard to grasp the concept of a simple winger. He didn't have that role in Valencia later on and I don't think he'll be that much of a winger here either. It has also been widely spoken on TV and newspapers about how we now play much more narrow than we used to.

I don't think I remember much of Silva and SWP swapping sides either? Tevez and Silva seemed to drift all over while SWP seemed to be most on the right side. Might have remembered it wrong though?

 

[Damocles]

Yeah, Silva started on the left, SWP started on the right. When Lennon was ripping Silva apart, we moved SWP over to the left and Silva on the right. Then Bale started ripping us apart, so we finally settled on Silva in the centre, Barry on the left and SWP on the right after half time.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention my other point. I agree with your assessment that Silva won't be an out and out winger. To be honest, we don't actually play out and out wingers and I can't remember the last time we did (probably early Mancini with Petrov/SWP).

I can see us playing the 4-3-3/4-5-1 hybrid that Barca, United (with Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez), and Munich have all played, one man up front, two wingers cutting in who can either double as midfielders or strikers.

 

[ste.sully]

No it's not,it's what you do with it when you've got it & if you are hoping that things will change after Xmas for the better does that mean you think we will be poor until then.

Well 61% possession isn’t exactly poor, Barcelona average possession time in La Liga is 70% - so if we can do that by Christmas, well done Bobby & Co.

Our possession and passing last year just wasn't good enough at times. Having the ability to keep the ball, is forgotten by many who claim tactics are important, like the formula goes "football is pass and move".

But I'm happy we have an ability to keep the ball now, it obviously ain't a fluke as our pass success rate was 86% against Tottenham AND Valencia. Too many times last season when we played the rags and Arsenal we weren't "bossed around" as they could dictate the game with their possession. Our passing ability could be our simplest, but most important tool for improvement this season

 

[Outrun]

Seems like our prayers have been met, Mancini's line-up for tonight:
Hart, Zabaleta, K Toure, Kompany, Lescott - De Jong, Y Toure, G Barry - C Tevez, E Adebayor, D Silva

Meaning we'll finally see Tevez, Adebayor and Silva together in-form (or at least more than against Valencia). It also means we won't have any natural winger on the pitch with SWP gone.

Surprised he's playing Lescott, but with Boateng injured too I guess it's smart.

Anyway let's keep the match talk in the correct thread, just thought I'd add it here for tactics talk later.

Match talk:
<a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=186131&start=40" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=11&t=186131&start=40</a>

 

[the--dud]

My Analysis of Timisoara - Manchester City

First of all - before I get maimed by the anti-Mancini brigade - I realise the opposition weren't great and it's a game we were expected to win.


Formation
We started out with:
Zab---VK---KT--Lescott
--------DJ------------
----Yaya-----Barry----
--------Silva---------
------Ade---Tevez-----

In my opinion this is a Mancini's ideal formation. Sometimes due to opposition a different formation might be called for but I think this is his preferred formation.

On the Romanian TV broadcast they showed Timisoara playing (if I remember correctly) 4-2-3-1 which is a joke. It was fairly obviously they played an ultra defensive 4-5-1. To banks: 4 defenders and 5 midfielders sitting as deep as possible with that lonely striker hardly ever seeing the ball.

Tactics
If you watched the game you seen Mancini constantly urging players to get forward, it was clear to me Mancini wanted us to take the possession but also score goals.
A lot of reports in the papers are making out as if we struggled against them - even going as far as to say we were "treading water, lethargic and uninspiring prior to Balotelli’s 56th minute introduction" which is as much an insult as it is clueless.
IMO we were comfortable and prodding to find an opening.

The problem was that Timisoara were content to defend deep and crowd any player of ours to managed to get the ball in their final 3rd of the pitch.
To our credit we remained confident the goal would come due to our superiour players, possession and technique.

I found it very interesting the substitutions Mancini made.
It's bleeding obviously we were chasing that away goal and anyone who says anything else has no idea about football.

• Instead of doing a like-for-like Ade-Balotelli sub Mancini took off a (holding) midfielder in Barry and put on a striker in Balotelli. Effectively playing 4-2-3-1. You could even argue it was actually 4-2-1-3!
• Adam Johnson replaced Silva which means a direct winger on for a more playmaking deeper player.
• Even after we got the goal when Tevez came off, a totally defensive decision would be to put on Vieira to hold on to the lead, or Richards and move Kompany to DM. He instead put on Jo who's an out and out striker.

Overall Impressions
I think we did well and I can see more paralells to Mancini's Inter team the more games we play this year. It was an assured performance against a tricky opponent when we knew relatively little about the players, managers and the country itself.
A typical fixture where you'd expect City of old to have another embarrasing "typical City" moment.
Also Balotelli will be a fscking City legend...
I'm happy anyway :)