Is Mancini adapting his Inter tactics? [Tactics talk]

[Ricster]

18 pages is alot to go through and im not sure if this has been mentioned by i'll explain.

I watched the City vs Liverpool game again last night and what i noticed was Yaya was playing at the top of a 3.

Vision the way we set up on Monday night in a formation that could be described as a 4-2-3-1 or when attacking a 4-2-1-3 formation.

What stood out to me was the use of Yaya in this formation. He was playing in the role where we thought we'd see Silva or Robinho. That then got me thinking about the last time we saw a midfielder of the same sort of style play in that position behind the striker or strikers.

Cast your mind back to when the great Johan Cruyff was manager of Barca. It wasn't unusual to see Cruyff deploy a DM style player in that position. The DM does need to have a full array of attributes like, good ball retention, passing, stamina, but most important of all is the pressure and the breaking up of play high up the pitch.

This allowed Barca, and on Monday night City to start attacks much further up the pitch and pinned Liverpool down and not allow them out of their own half.

I am now of the belief that Yaya is the integeral part of this team. The heartbeat if you like. There was no other player on that pitch that played a more important role than Toure.

Yaya Toure is in no doubt to us what Wesley Sneijder was to Inter Milan last season. If you look at the way Inter set out last year under Mourinho we are playing under a very similar mould.

2 DM's in De Jong and Barry as Inter had Zanetti and Cambiasso, and as i've already touched on Yaya and Sneijder.

Here is another image of a similar version to the way we set out. The formation allows us not only to contain but to stretch the opposition when in possession of the ball.

Very clever stuff from Mancini but the highlight for me is the use of Yaya and that is instrumental to the team.

 

[lloydie]

hmm, been studying those diagrams ricster and for the life of me can't see any difference.

 

[nick.nikky]

I'm interested to know why some regard the formation you play as a 4213? Not saying it's wrong, it's just I've never really seen it as a regular formation, especially not at club level. Wilson had said it's the coming formation but he used examples of Arsenal and Barcelona which were a bit off the mark I felt, Brazil under Menezes were the first I've seen use it.

Inter won CL with 4-2-1-3 last year. Furthest back I can recall seeing it though was Barcelona when Rivaldo had the "1 spot".


The Tottenham game was 4-1-2-3 which is vaguely similar positioning but completely different in the build up and where you try to gain possession (high vs low pressure).

Far as 4-2-3-1 vs 4-2-3-1 goes... They call it a 4-2-1-3 to differentiate it from a 4-2-3-1 and the biggest difference is how you use the units. Roughly speaking: in a 4-2-3-1 your centre forward (the "1") connects with your "3" as a target man. In a 4-2-1-3 however, the am (1) is the guy who connects with the wingers and the cf in a trequartista role (in the hole). In a 4-2-3-1 you also basically have six guys doing the attacking while the dms sit back, while in a 4-2-1-3 you could describe all the midfielders in the centre as a fluid cm unit and you potentially get eight guys in attack. One is a faux 4-3-3 with a triangle mid... and the other is a almost a faux 4-2-4 formation. If that makes any sense...

What stood out to me was the use of Yaya in this formation. He was playing in the role where we thought we'd see Silva or Robinho. That then got me thinking about the last time we saw a midfielder of the same sort of style play in that position behind the striker or strikers.

Cast your mind back to when the great Johan Cruyff was manager of Barca. It wasn't unusual to see Cruyff deploy a DM style player in that position. The DM does need to have a full array of attributes like, good ball retention, passing, stamina, but most important of all is the pressure and the breaking up of play high up the pitch.

This allowed Barca, and on Monday night City to start attacks much further up the pitch and pinned Liverpool down and not allow them out of their own half.

I am now of the belief that Yaya is the integeral part of this team. The heartbeat if you like. There was no other player on that pitch that played a more important role than Toure.

Yaya Toure is in no doubt to us what Wesley Sneijder was to Inter Milan last season. If you look at the way Inter set out last year under Mourinho we are playing under a very similar mould.

2 DM's in De Jong and Barry as Inter had Zanetti and Cambiasso, and as i've already touched on Yaya and Sneijder.

Very clever stuff from Mancini but the highlight for me is the use of Yaya and that is instrumental to the team.

The quality of this forum is increasing with every post in this thread. Top stuff.

 

[Ricster]

hmm, been studying those diagrams ricster and for the life of me can't see any difference.

Sorry, i edited it. The first one i used must have had a copy right on it, but the two wide players were further up top.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Ricster, I saw it just like you. 4-2-3-1. When we defended we had more or less five in a line in the midfield. The use of Milner where he was took Johnson out of the game and left Liverpool with little attacking threat.

The difference between last year and this year was that when we attacked, the midfield attacked as a unit. That yawning gap between midfield and attack was not there.

Great stuff as usual nick.nicky

 

[Anonymous]

It will be interesting to see if we go with 4213 often this season, whether we vary who plays the "1" role. The way it's been explained in this thread, I can see Milner playing it, with Yaya dropping back, and Silva taking the spot on the left.

I don't think anyone's had a go at going through the way we'll play tonight. Judging from what was said in the training thread from yesterday, we're going to see the 442 we employed last season, and in pre-season just gone:


Richards......Boyata........Kompany........Zabba

SWP............Nigel...........Viera..............Silva

.................Ade..............Jo........................

Not my favourite formation to be honest, nor my favourite team selection, but I imagine over 90 minutes against tiramisu it'll be effective. It's also as adaptable as any other Mancini tactic in the sense that it could turn into this:

Richards.....Boyata......Kompany.......Zabba

..................Nigel.........Viera....................

SWP...................Silva.......................Jo.....

..........................Ade............................

Or even a more defensive version of that with the 2+3 becoming a straight 5 in midfield.

 

[claytob]

What impressed me though is that there was a fluidity to the midfield and attack. Both Barry and Yaya (and to certain extent de jong, but not as much) seemed to be able to change positions, or certainly support our attacks. The first goal was a great example of this where Yaya was involved in the build up play and Barry finished the move off.

Also the system even allowed Tevez to drop a little deeper to pick up the ball, when he did this either Johnson or Milner would move inside to play as striker (there were even instances when Yaya would move forward to give Tevez an option).

The other think that impressed me was the movement off the ball, players not only looking to get into space there were doing with intelligence, by that I mean they moved in a way that created the angles to play a ball through Liverpool's midfield and defence.

The team were well drilled but with trust to try something different, at times we were constantly probing Liverpool with great possession and then there would be a through ball or a nice one-two and all of a sudden City were on the front foot getting into dangerous areas.

And finally the other thing that stood out was that we were clinical. Liverpool had more shots on goal than us but we ran out 3-0 winners.

The game on Monday was a pleasure to watch.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

It will be interesting to see if we go with 4213 often this season, whether we vary who plays the "1" role. The way it's been explained in this thread, I can see Milner playing it, with Yaya dropping back, and Silva taking the spot on the left.

I don't think anyone's had a go at going through the way we'll play tonight. Judging from what was said in the training thread from yesterday, we're going to see the 442 we employed last season, and in pre-season just gone:


Richards......Boyata........Kompany........Zabba

SWP............Nigel...........Viera..............Silva

.................Ade..............Jo........................

Not my favourite formation to be honest, nor my favourite team selection, but I imagine over 90 minutes against tiramisu it'll be effective. It's also as adaptable as any other Mancini tactic in the sense that it could turn into this:

Richards.....Boyata......Kompany.......Zabba

..................Nigel.........Viera....................

SWP...................Silva.......................Jo.....

..........................Ade............................

Or even a more defensive version of that with the 2+3 becoming a straight 5 in midfield.

Billy, you might be right.

However, in 9 months I have never, ever predicted a City team or formation which Mancini is going to play correctly.

I haven;t got a bastard clue what he will do.

I reckon over the last 6 games (including pre-season) he has played every formation ever played. I don't even think he's played the same formation twice.

So on that basis I'm predicting either The Revie Plan or an old fashioned sweeper system tonight ;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

Do not mean to try and be clever Ricster - but what you describe is what I was expecting to see this season - I could not understand all this 3 DM hysteria - as if we were going to play 3 in a flat line in front of the back four.

Ya Ya was always going to be the jewel IMO - we just need to identify a back-up that can slot into the role if he is unavailable

I see that to be Milner because he is closer than Silva to the Ya Ya attributes - That is part of the reason we were so dogged in our pursuit - whilst a lot on here were obsessing about some perceived swap for Ireland - strange that as well

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Do not mean to try and be clever Ricster - but what you describe is what I was expecting to see this season - I could not understand all this 3 DM hysteria - as if we were going to play 3 in a flat line in front of the back four.

Ya Ya was always going to be the jewel IMO - we just need to identify a back-up that can slot into the role if he is unavailable

I see that to be Milner because he is closer than Silva to the Ya Ya attributes - That is part of the reason we were so dogged in our pursuit - whilst a lot on here were obsessing about some perceived swap for Ireland - strange that as well

I don't envisage this being the only system we play all season at all. I think Silva will be utilised at the point of a diamond midfield, as we started against Vlencia.