Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[mancityscot]

In answer to your addition to the thread fuck off back to the golf course

Sorry, didn't realise I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. Grow up mate

Ok so who would you have as our manager?

Klopp, conte, guardiola, hiddink to name a few.

 

[bluesimon]

Perhaps we might have to come to terms with the limits and boundaries that Mancini is really capable of. He is certainly a 'winner', as Khaldoon so boldly pointed out when he was appointed and in all fairness, he has achieved what he was asked to do - go win some silverware and get those Rag cnuts to take down their 44/45 year banner at the swamp! Job done.

But there is never any smoke without fire and Mancini keeps on repeating his own history. His mantra is one of looking around the corner - not looking or planning too far ahead. Yet again, his limits are as clear as day and I believe he has taken City as far as can be.

Exactly the same happened at Inter. Good league and Cup wins but in the Champions league, total continuous wipe out, which continues at City. For 7-8 years, he has had a real mental block and his inability to engage with his players on a one to one level and bring them onto the next level, is as clear as day. With the greatest respect to him, any manager of similar standing, given the additional £200m+ he spent would have achieved what he has done. Mancini was the icing on the cake - Aguero, Yaya, Nasri, Dzeko, Silva - came to plug the gaps and make up the difference. But going on from there, thats another story.

It would be very easy to critisize Mancini on many levels and at times, I feel like going on a massive rant about him on these forums. it would easy to pick holes and expose all the small flaws and wounds, but Manchester City and its fans have to be bigger than that. As a life long 49 year old fan and 14 years as a season ticket holder, the 'evolving' city is what continues to hold me glued to following our team. Since the Sheikh came in with his oil money, the 'ONE' true underlying strength that is now the vision of 'City' - is longevity. Just take a few minutes to google the Sheikh and what he is investing his money in - and a very large proportion of it is in areas even he is unlikely to experience the full benefit from in his life-time. A year (even a month) can feel like a lifetime in football, but for these guys, a lifetime is not 'their' lifetime. They want to be remembered for 100's of years, written and talked about in the history books. When you have more money than god, that is the way you can think. Money does not buy you anything immediate anymore because you already have it all.

Getting back to Mancini, I would be prepared to bet huge money that he will be gone at the end of this season. He has become their 'Mark Hughes' now and am sure they realise he has taken City as far as he can. The new back room team precided over the kind of change at Barcelona, never seen in footballing history before - and they are now at the top table with City. For them, it is a game of the mind - a game of cutting edge tactics, thought provoking diversity, border breaking decision making - something that Mancini clearly is not cut out for. He was once a good striker that never really made it in the national team and he has gone on to be a good manager at the upper levels of the game, but his mind is that of singlarity - formulas - training ground perpetualism - mantras - sound bites. But most dangerously of all, clearly displays a character of believing his own publicity. I do not see an evolving manager. He is the 'Nicky Shorey' of managers, digs his heals in and wonders why someone has climbed on his shoulders and gone 1 up. This is the man that has said, on 5 different occassions 'I know what the problem is - it is my fault and I know how to fix it'. This is the man that keeps on throwing the toys out of the pram because he cannot carry on buying anyone and everyone and then end up doing a Wenger and buys 5 players in a matter of days by way of petulance. This is the man that gets rid of the likes of Nigel DJ (who I thought was our Scholes) and then drops Lescott from the most successful defence in Premiship history (Baconface has never done that to the likes of Neville or Ferdinand). He then, despite all the wall of evidence, keeps on shoving his decisions in the face of reason, without a plan B. Nastasic might be a great defender in the future, but he is no Lescott. Lescotts experience, alone, is worth a starting place for every game. For example, take yourselves back to the first Champions league game against Munich. He inexplicably dropped Lescott to the bench and bought in Kolo (who had played in one league cup game in the previous 25+ games) and both of Munich's goals were scored with Kolo being within 3 yards of the scorer.

Apologies, this has now become the rant I said I would not do - but my point is Mancini has gone as far as he can. But like much of the squad, is happy to carry on taking the £7m a year, sign an extended contract (remember what Capello did before the last world cup?!) and not take the responsibility for his actions. Great managers know when their time is up (look at Guardiola and Mourinio as recent examples) and are prepared to look elsewhere for where they are best suited. Mancini, I thank you from the bottom of my pain ridden footballing heart for the gift of being the Permiership champions and you will always be a legend at City, but the time has come to move on. Just do it with some grace.

Excellent, articulate post. He strikes me as an ambitious manager who has read all the theses and is in touch with all the modern football theories, but who has no emotional intelligence. I've seen too many players shoehorned into roles they can't play. Too many players criticised publicly. Too many players inexplicably sent 'into the cold' and I've heard too many press conferences where he says nothing. "We must work harder" appears to be the limit of his problem solving ability.

Don't remind me of kolo in Munich. Or boyata at old Trafford. Or the rotation of full backs in the champions league. Or zab as left wing back. Or Johnson as playmaker.

Too many wrong decisions. I think his time is coming to an end now, barring an increasingly unlikely miracle.

Dave - you get my point exactly. My rant would have gone on to include all of your points and masses more. It is actually difficult to make too many poor decisions with these kinds of players, but you get the sense that because of his lack of emotional connection to his players, they have become drones themselves - and tonight, he comes out and states very clearly - "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area" . The players play to his plan exactly and then he publicly blames them for playing the tippy tappy football he tells them to play. His contradictions are amazing and if he had the tenacity to actually take on board his observations back to the training field and put them into practice, it would help.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Perhaps we might have to come to terms with the limits and boundaries that Mancini is really capable of. He is certainly a 'winner', as Khaldoon so boldly pointed out when he was appointed and in all fairness, he has achieved what he was asked to do - go win some silverware and get those Rag cnuts to take down their 44/45 year banner at the swamp! Job done.

But there is never any smoke without fire and Mancini keeps on repeating his own history. His mantra is one of looking around the corner - not looking or planning too far ahead. Yet again, his limits are as clear as day and I believe he has taken City as far as can be.

Exactly the same happened at Inter. Good league and Cup wins but in the Champions league, total continuous wipe out, which continues at City. For 7-8 years, he has had a real mental block and his inability to engage with his players on a one to one level and bring them onto the next level, is as clear as day. With the greatest respect to him, any manager of similar standing, given the additional £200m+ he spent would have achieved what he has done. Mancini was the icing on the cake - Aguero, Yaya, Nasri, Dzeko, Silva - came to plug the gaps and make up the difference. But going on from there, thats another story.

It would be very easy to critisize Mancini on many levels and at times, I feel like going on a massive rant about him on these forums. it would easy to pick holes and expose all the small flaws and wounds, but Manchester City and its fans have to be bigger than that. As a life long 49 year old fan and 14 years as a season ticket holder, the 'evolving' city is what continues to hold me glued to following our team. Since the Sheikh came in with his oil money, the 'ONE' true underlying strength that is now the vision of 'City' - is longevity. Just take a few minutes to google the Sheikh and what he is investing his money in - and a very large proportion of it is in areas even he is unlikely to experience the full benefit from in his life-time. A year (even a month) can feel like a lifetime in football, but for these guys, a lifetime is not 'their' lifetime. They want to be remembered for 100's of years, written and talked about in the history books. When you have more money than god, that is the way you can think. Money does not buy you anything immediate anymore because you already have it all.

Getting back to Mancini, I would be prepared to bet huge money that he will be gone at the end of this season. He has become their 'Mark Hughes' now and am sure they realise he has taken City as far as he can. The new back room team precided over the kind of change at Barcelona, never seen in footballing history before - and they are now at the top table with City. For them, it is a game of the mind - a game of cutting edge tactics, thought provoking diversity, border breaking decision making - something that Mancini clearly is not cut out for. He was once a good striker that never really made it in the national team and he has gone on to be a good manager at the upper levels of the game, but his mind is that of singlarity - formulas - training ground perpetualism - mantras - sound bites. But most dangerously of all, clearly displays a character of believing his own publicity. I do not see an evolving manager. He is the 'Nicky Shorey' of managers, digs his heals in and wonders why someone has climbed on his shoulders and gone 1 up. This is the man that has said, on 5 different occassions 'I know what the problem is - it is my fault and I know how to fix it'. This is the man that keeps on throwing the toys out of the pram because he cannot carry on buying anyone and everyone and then end up doing a Wenger and buys 5 players in a matter of days by way of petulance. This is the man that gets rid of the likes of Nigel DJ (who I thought was our Scholes) and then drops Lescott from the most successful defence in Premiship history (Baconface has never done that to the likes of Neville or Ferdinand). He then, despite all the wall of evidence, keeps on shoving his decisions in the face of reason, without a plan B. Nastasic might be a great defender in the future, but he is no Lescott. Lescotts experience, alone, is worth a starting place for every game. For example, take yourselves back to the first Champions league game against Munich. He inexplicably dropped Lescott to the bench and bought in Kolo (who had played in one league cup game in the previous 25+ games) and both of Munich's goals were scored with Kolo being within 3 yards of the scorer.

Apologies, this has now become the rant I said I would not do - but my point is Mancini has gone as far as he can. But like much of the squad, is happy to carry on taking the £7m a year, sign an extended contract (remember what Capello did before the last world cup?!) and not take the responsibility for his actions. Great managers know when their time is up (look at Guardiola and Mourinio as recent examples) and are prepared to look elsewhere for where they are best suited. Mancini, I thank you from the bottom of my pain ridden footballing heart for the gift of being the Permiership champions and you will always be a legend at City, but the time has come to move on. Just do it with some grace.

Disagree with a significant proportion of the content, but that is a very well considered and reasoned post.

 

[MCFC BOB]

I agree with that long post apart from the Nastasic bit. I think that's one of the things he's got right.

 

[Anonymous]

As things stand right now retaining the title , and winning the FA Cup , might well keep Mancini in a job ...

just the FA Cup win , or worse still , nothing at all , probably won't !

 

[ManCityFC]

=

Perhaps we might have to come to terms with the limits and boundaries that Mancini is really capable of. He is certainly a 'winner', as Khaldoon so boldly pointed out when he was appointed and in all fairness, he has achieved what he was asked to do - go win some silverware and get those Rag cnuts to take down their 44/45 year banner at the swamp! Job done.

But there is never any smoke without fire and Mancini keeps on repeating his own history. His mantra is one of looking around the corner - not looking or planning too far ahead. Yet again, his limits are as clear as day and I believe he has taken City as far as can be.

Exactly the same happened at Inter. Good league and Cup wins but in the Champions league, total continuous wipe out, which continues at City. For 7-8 years, he has had a real mental block and his inability to engage with his players on a one to one level and bring them onto the next level, is as clear as day. With the greatest respect to him, any manager of similar standing, given the additional £200m+ he spent would have achieved what he has done. Mancini was the icing on the cake - Aguero, Yaya, Nasri, Dzeko, Silva - came to plug the gaps and make up the difference. But going on from there, thats another story.

It would be very easy to critisize Mancini on many levels and at times, I feel like going on a massive rant about him on these forums. it would easy to pick holes and expose all the small flaws and wounds, but Manchester City and its fans have to be bigger than that. As a life long 49 year old fan and 14 years as a season ticket holder, the 'evolving' city is what continues to hold me glued to following our team. Since the Sheikh came in with his oil money, the 'ONE' true underlying strength that is now the vision of 'City' - is longevity. Just take a few minutes to google the Sheikh and what he is investing his money in - and a very large proportion of it is in areas even he is unlikely to experience the full benefit from in his life-time. A year (even a month) can feel like a lifetime in football, but for these guys, a lifetime is not 'their' lifetime. They want to be remembered for 100's of years, written and talked about in the history books. When you have more money than god, that is the way you can think. Money does not buy you anything immediate anymore because you already have it all.

Getting back to Mancini, I would be prepared to bet huge money that he will be gone at the end of this season. He has become their 'Mark Hughes' now and am sure they realise he has taken City as far as he can. The new back room team precided over the kind of change at Barcelona, never seen in footballing history before - and they are now at the top table with City. For them, it is a game of the mind - a game of cutting edge tactics, thought provoking diversity, border breaking decision making - something that Mancini clearly is not cut out for. He was once a good striker that never really made it in the national team and he has gone on to be a good manager at the upper levels of the game, but his mind is that of singlarity - formulas - training ground perpetualism - mantras - sound bites. But most dangerously of all, clearly displays a character of believing his own publicity. I do not see an evolving manager. He is the 'Nicky Shorey' of managers, digs his heals in and wonders why someone has climbed on his shoulders and gone 1 up. This is the man that has said, on 5 different occassions 'I know what the problem is - it is my fault and I know how to fix it'. This is the man that keeps on throwing the toys out of the pram because he cannot carry on buying anyone and everyone and then end up doing a Wenger and buys 5 players in a matter of days by way of petulance. This is the man that gets rid of the likes of Nigel DJ (who I thought was our Scholes) and then drops Lescott from the most successful defence in Premiship history (Baconface has never done that to the likes of Neville or Ferdinand). He then, despite all the wall of evidence, keeps on shoving his decisions in the face of reason, without a plan B. Nastasic might be a great defender in the future, but he is no Lescott. Lescotts experience, alone, is worth a starting place for every game. For example, take yourselves back to the first Champions league game against Munich. He inexplicably dropped Lescott to the bench and bought in Kolo (who had played in one league cup game in the previous 25+ games) and both of Munich's goals were scored with Kolo being within 3 yards of the scorer.

Apologies, this has now become the rant I said I would not do - but my point is Mancini has gone as far as he can. But like much of the squad, is happy to carry on taking the £7m a year, sign an extended contract (remember what Capello did before the last world cup?!) and not take the responsibility for his actions. Great managers know when their time is up (look at Guardiola and Mourinio as recent examples) and are prepared to look elsewhere for where they are best suited. Mancini, I thank you from the bottom of my pain ridden footballing heart for the gift of being the Permiership champions and you will always be a legend at City, but the time has come to move on. Just do it with some grace.

Excellent, articulate post. He strikes me as an ambitious manager who has read all the theses and is in touch with all the modern football theories, but who has no emotional intelligence. I've seen too many players shoehorned into roles they can't play. Too many players criticised publicly. Too many players inexplicably sent 'into the cold' and I've heard too many press conferences where he says nothing. "We must work harder" appears to be the limit of his problem solving ability.

Don't remind me of kolo in Munich. Or boyata at old Trafford. Or the rotation of full backs in the champions league. Or zab as left wing back. Or Johnson as playmaker.

Too many wrong decisions. I think his time is coming to an end now, barring an increasingly unlikely miracle.

Dave - you get my point exactly. My rant would have gone on to include all of your points and masses more. It is actually difficult to make too many poor decisions with these kinds of players, but you get the sense that because of his lack of emotional connection to his players, they have become drones themselves - and tonight, he comes out and states very clearly - "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area" . The players play to his plan exactly and then he publicly blames them for playing the tippy tappy football he tells them to play. His contradictions are amazing and if he had the tenacity to actually take on board his observations back to the training field and put them into practice, it would help.

The thing that is utterly terrifying about this statement: "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area" is that it has taken until now to mention it. Like this is some sort of new problem. We were starting to see this happen at the back end of last season and it has gotten worse this season and is highlighted by the continued lack of form of the strikers. The beginning of last season, the football was breathtaking at times. The pace and movement was colossal, but he's trained that out of them, in favour of a slower and more controlled style of football. Why? Not a clue, clearly he has a plan, but its not been working all season. Is it to emulate Barcelona, unlikely, as Barcelona are stunningly quick. In fact, the lack of form of the strikers is a direct result of this change in my opinion. They seem to want to back away and walk the ball into the net. During the Reading game we had more attempts on goal by midfielders and DMs than AMs and strikers.

Also, for the record, I agree entirely on his tactical ineptitude. It's idiotic at times. End of the road, but thanks for effort and winning us the league and FA Cup.

 

[Sky Blue]

As things stand right now retaining the title , and winning the FA Cup , might well keep Mancini in a job ...

just the FA Cup win , or worse still , nothing at all , probably won't !

Marvellous...

 

[adrianr]

I agree with that long post apart from the Nastasic bit. I think that's one of the things he's got right.

Thought pretty much the same reading that. Very good post, but Nastasic is the one shining light in a sea of summer mediocrity.

Very interesting about the legacy of Mansour too. I knew we were thinking long term at City but I hadnt really thought past the next twenty years, in which time we should have a well established academy with a clear direction and measurable success.

 

[Ducado]

=

Excellent, articulate post. He strikes me as an ambitious manager who has read all the theses and is in touch with all the modern football theories, but who has no emotional intelligence. I've seen too many players shoehorned into roles they can't play. Too many players criticised publicly. Too many players inexplicably sent 'into the cold' and I've heard too many press conferences where he says nothing. "We must work harder" appears to be the limit of his problem solving ability.

Don't remind me of kolo in Munich. Or boyata at old Trafford. Or the rotation of full backs in the champions league. Or zab as left wing back. Or Johnson as playmaker.

Too many wrong decisions. I think his time is coming to an end now, barring an increasingly unlikely miracle.

Dave - you get my point exactly. My rant would have gone on to include all of your points and masses more. It is actually difficult to make too many poor decisions with these kinds of players, but you get the sense that because of his lack of emotional connection to his players, they have become drones themselves - and tonight, he comes out and states very clearly - "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area" . The players play to his plan exactly and then he publicly blames them for playing the tippy tappy football he tells them to play. His contradictions are amazing and if he had the tenacity to actually take on board his observations back to the training field and put them into practice, it would help.

The thing that is utterly terrifying about this statement: "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area" is that it has taken until now to mention it. Like this is some sort of new problem. We were starting to see this happen at the back end of last season and it has gotten worse this season and is highlighted by the continued lack of form of the strikers. The beginning of last season, the football was breathtaking at times. The pace and movement was colossal, but he's trained that out of them, in favour of a slower and more controlled style of football. Why? Not a clue, clearly he has a plan, but its not been working all season. Is it to emulate Barcelona, unlikely, as Barcelona are stunningly quick. In fact, the lack of form of the strikers is a direct result of this change in my opinion. They seem to want to back away and walk the ball into the net. During the Reading game we had more attempts on goal by midfielders and DMs than AMs and strikers.

Also, for the record, I agree entirely on his tactical ineptitude. It's idiotic at times. End of the road, but thanks for effort and winning us the league and FA Cup.

To be honest as a City fan I feel very uneasy reading that, there is something in the tone of yours and a few others posts in this thread

 

[jimharri]

As things stand right now retaining the title , and winning the FA Cup , might well keep Mancini in a job ...

just the FA Cup win , or worse still , nothing at all , probably won't !

Agreed.