Is now the time to consider Mancini's tenure at the club

[gordondaviesmoustache]

As fans we need to show more hunger rather than this "well i'm just happy to be here because 10 years ago blah blah blah" nonsense.

Such a contemptible thing to accuse other blues of lacking ambition just because they feel a man that delivered the title last season deserves the chance to turn it round.

I very much doubt that you have more hunger for this club to succeed than I do. It just happens to be the case that sacking managers at whim doesn't form part of my vision for delivering it.

 

[moomba]

Sorry, but you guys do not see what is going on here. As has been stated numerous times in loads of posts, with the starting point and money that Mancini was given, there are many other managers, 20+ that would have achieved what he has done

I don't believe thats the case, but can't be proven one way or the other.

The point is this - Mancini has reached his pinnicle - his mass - the top of his abilities.

No evidence to suggest thats the case either.

His contradictions are catastrophic. From all the reports I read on this forum from the training ground, he is obsessed with possession and trying to stich a way through the defense for tap ins and the perfect goals. All well and good and fine when it works. But since the middle of last season, opposition teams know this and they barracade their defences, leaving us no room to glide and move. BUT THEN, he comes out with a statement after the Sunderland game stating that "Sometimes we take too many touches and we think, 'never mind, we can score next time,' but we can’t be like that - in football, it doesn’t work like that. We have to be stronger in the penalty area". That is about a two faced statement as I have ever witnessed. He is the one spouting the possession mantra and then he critisises his players who are following his instructions.

I'm pretty sure the players aren't coached to take too many touches in the penalty area.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

But what would that look like in reality, "questioning" the players? The motivation and management of the players is the most important part of the managers job; it is the managers responsibility - that's how the organisation works, that's what he gets paid for. It's far more important than anything else.
So are you saying the owners should be summoning players to the Middle East for questioning?
To repeat myself, it's what they pay Mancini for.

It seems that when things go well it's all down to the players, when they don't it's all down to the manager.

I look at Chelsea. Players that under-perform at various times of the year, get rid of a manager and the players remain unaccountable ready to under-perform next year. Sure they won a cup last year, but it's the wrong way to run a football club IMO.

Mancini will be held accountable by results, but players have to take responsibility for their performances as well. Otherwise they've got a ready made excuse next time their personal standards slip below what is expected of them.

-- Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:09 pm --

Spot on phil the 10 years argument is like a cancer that needs to be removed from some fans mentality

It's a mentality that has fuck all impact on the club.

-- Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:11 pm --

I've always felt conviction comes from trust and respect, that someone has complete faith in what path they are on.

I suppose that's what separates the truly great manager and players, the ability to make them greater than the sum of their parts.

Being able to motivate yourself, and having pride and professionalism in your own performances is also what separates good from great players.

Is this not Mancini's team, though? Are they not the players he requested and nine time out of ten, we stumped-up for?

Perhaps we have bought particular players who don't have the attributes you rightly state they should already have in spades.

Football is always about motivation for players. How do players get themselves up for a Manchester derby, yet be insipid against Sunderland, Reading and West Ham?

For me, that's where a world class man-manager comes in.

I don't think it's any secret players will take a mile if you let them, or that they get managers the sack.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I'm pretty sure the players aren't coached to take too many touches in the penalty area.

How sure can you be though? Quite a few fans at Sunderland yesterday were saying that it can't be coincidence that we pass the ball so much and don't take shots when we have the chance or half-chance to do so. Mancini has to be preaching "possession, possession, possession" surely? And if so then that's what they do. And if he isn't then he'd tell them in no uncertain terms and they wouldn't do it game after game.

 

[zark]

1. 5 year plan [includes formation + tactics ] cannot be altered by mancini. ends this summer
2. transfers in summer were abysmal for a league winning team looking to champs league
3. style of play is no different to anything seen before

so all in all mancini can only put out best team and hope they follow instructions

yet;

if we want to win the league this season
a) we need a miracle
b) quality signings over jan
or
sack the staff and fingers crossed the new management boost the players

but
without doubt the squad is worse than last season

 

[Marvin]

But what would that look like in reality, "questioning" the players? The motivation and management of the players is the most important part of the managers job; it is the managers responsibility - that's how the organisation works, that's what he gets paid for. It's far more important than anything else.
So are you saying the owners should be summoning players to the Middle East for questioning?
To repeat myself, it's what they pay Mancini for.

It seems that when things go well it's all down to the players, when they don't it's all down to the manager.

I look at Chelsea. Players that under-perform at various times of the year, get rid of a manager and the players remain unaccountable ready to under-perform next year. Sure they won a cup last year, but it's the wrong way to run a football club IMO.

Mancini will be held accountable by results, but players have to take responsibility for their performances as well. Otherwise they've got a ready made excuse next time their personal standards slip below what is expected of them.

-- Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:09 pm --

Spot on phil the 10 years argument is like a cancer that needs to be removed from some fans mentality

It's a mentality that has fuck all impact on the club.

-- Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:11 pm --

I've always felt conviction comes from trust and respect, that someone has complete faith in what path they are on.

I suppose that's what separates the truly great manager and players, the ability to make them greater than the sum of their parts.

Being able to motivate yourself, and having pride and professionalism in your own performances is also what separates good from great players.

Is this not Mancini's team, though? Are they not the players he requested and nine time out of ten, we stumped-up for?

Perhaps we have bought particular players who don't have the attributes you rightly state they should already have in spades.

Football is always about motivation for players. How do players get themselves up for a Manchester derby, yet be insipid against Sunderland, Reading and West Ham?

For me, that's where a world class man-manager comes in.

I don't think it's any secret players will take a mile if you let them, or that they get managers the sack.

You can't play with all out intensity every week. Utd's performance was arguably a lot worse than ours yesterday, yet they won. There's more factors than the manager at play, but the only one that ever seems to get discussed is Mancini

Who is better than Mancini who is available? You want to watch a bit of Real Madrid this season - if ever a team is under-performing it's Real Madrid. And Mourinho is supposedly the best manager around.

 

[moomba]

I don't think it's any secret players will take a mile if you let them, or that they get managers the sack.

If you allow players that power they can certainly get managers the sack.

I don't think we should allow players to have that power.

I can't remember exactly when it was, there were a lot of rumours that the players were stirring things up, Khaldoon paid a visit and told everyone in no uncertain terms that Mancini was the man in charge and thats just the way it is.

Maybe another visit is in order if that is whats happening (I'm not convinced it is).

Give the players a power to sack a manager now, and they will have it forever. That's not to say that if the people in charge think a change needs to be made they should be afraid to make it, but high standards of performance and behaviour need to be established regardless of whether a player wants a manager gone or not.<br /><br />-- Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:35 pm --<br /><br />

I'm pretty sure the players aren't coached to take too many touches in the penalty area.

How sure can you be though? Quite a few fans at Sunderland yesterday were saying that it can't be coincidence that we pass the ball so much and don't take shots when we have the chance or half-chance to do so. Mancini has to be preaching "possession, possession, possession" surely? And if so then that's what they do. And if he isn't then he'd tell them in no uncertain terms and they wouldn't do it game after game.

No-one can be sure whats said at training sessions, but if he's come out after the game and said we're taking too many touches in the penalty box it's a fair sign that it isn't the way he wants us to play.

 

[Parksidecity]

1) Worse Premier league in terms of quality for years
2) last year and maybe this year - United are seriously not all that
3) The money we have spent - you would expect the title at least
4) Treatment of players - shocking
5) Slow no tempo football - with the quality we have
6) Silva goal ratio for Spain excellent - City not so good - right position?
7) Scott Sinclair - team crying out for pace v Reading - why didn't he bring him on
8) Lescott playing as a striker - you cannot defend this action


still my club and i love them - but something not right is there
sorry for the bad grammar -

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

As fans we need to show more hunger rather than this "well i'm just happy to be here because 10 years ago blah blah blah" nonsense.

Such a contemptible thing to accuse other blues of lacking ambition just because they feel a man that delivered the title last season deserves the chance to turn it round.

I very much doubt that you have more hunger for this club to succeed than I do. It just happens to be the case that sacking managers at whim doesn't form part of my vision for delivering it.

It's not accusing of lacking ambition it just seems to be a wheeled out argument to not change things but changing things is what has moved us forwards. Yes 10 years ago we where not good but improving 13 years ago we were shite but improving. Change is what has driven is forward since then. Okay change is what drove is back before but that was under terrible leadership from the top guys.

 

[Anonymous]

I also think a lot of people consistently miss the point about our appalling European campaigns under Mancini. European football might well be a "bonus" for the supporters, but for the people throwing huge sums of money at our club it is vital to commercial progress and the loss of income from exits last season and this season in the group stages, coupled with the regression of our UEFA co-efficient are reasons enough for Mancini to have his tenure questioned.

The ramifications extend beyond even the commercial ones. Attracting top players is incredibly important. We saw last summer Hazard choose Chelsea, no doubt in part because of the fact they were European champions. Lets face it, if they hadn't won that competition, they wouldn't have gotten into this season's group stages and most likely Hazard would be playing elsewhere. What about the best young European prospects. If you're Isco, and you can choose between Arsenal, United, City, Chelsea, Madrid, and Barca, where do City come on that list ? Can we reasonably expect Silva to make a compelling argument for why City is the place to be ? I don't see it with Mancini in charge. He's such a divisive character even players he actively chased and signed now wouldn't shed a tear if he was sacked.

I've read numerous times on this forum and outside that I must be a Jonny Come Lately supporter because anyone who remembers where we were 10 years ago would not want Mancini sacked. Another lazy argument. Viewing City through the prism of even Mark Hughes' team of three and half years ago is a manifest nonsense, let alone doing it through the prism of a 2nd division team. We all know where we've been and as thankful as we are that we aren't there anymore, it shouldn't mean that a guy like Mancini who has disrespected our club this season (IMO), has failed in his European targets spectacularly, and is currently failing with his league targets, is given unlimited grace and shouldn't be questioned or criticised.

What happens next is anyone's guess. If we were to drop further behind over the next few weeks, I'd personally sack Mancini immediately. I don't think we're any less likely to win the league were even Kidd be placed in temporary charge until May. It would then be a clear signal of intent to all prospective new managers that there's a job going at City and that they can discuss it without fear of disrespecting the current incumbent.