Islamophobia in the Conservative Party

[BobKowalski]

I don’t and I don’t get called a racist or a bigot for criticising Christanity.

On what grounds do you criticise Christianity?

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Christ almighty.....

Amen

 

[Ban-jani]

On what grounds do you criticise Christianity?

On the grounds it’s absolute bullshit and harmful to the progress of humanity.

 

[BobKowalski]

On the grounds it’s absolute bullshit and harmful to the progress of humanity.

As are all Abrahamic religions in my opinion. As a Catholic I can criticise it freely as its the faith I was brought in and forms part of my cultural background. Despite this I have been accused of anti-Christian or anti- Catholic bigotry. If you have avoided the bigotry charge then clearly you have not been talking to the right Christians or you have been polite.

Polite is fine. I am politer when it comes to Judaism and Islam as I am not of those faiths and it’s easy to confuse cultural with religious norms and end up looking like a dick. Or even a racist dick. Which is never a good look.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Despite my somewhat flippant reply earlier in the thread, it is an issue. The environment for political discourse has taken a significant turn for the worse in recent years. Antisemitism, Brexit, Trump, immigration have all played a part in bringing racism and xenophobia to the fore.

I was in Washington in June and visited the Holocaust Museum there. Looking at the exhibits and newsreel footage of the rise of the Nazi party, it was impossible not to compare it to Trump's coming to power. Making America great compared to making Germany great, nationalism, railing against foreigners and blaming them for your countries troubles, the rhetoric against immigrants, a constant procession of downright lies, turning on the mainstream media and encouraging outlets that trumpeted a warped view of the world.

This is becoming the norm.

 

[Ban-jani]

As are all Abrahamic religions in my opinion. As a Catholic I can criticise it freely as its the faith I was brought in and forms part of my cultural background. Despite this I have been accused of anti-Christian or anti- Catholic bigotry. If you have avoided the bigotry charge then clearly you have not been talking to the right Christians or you have been polite.

Polite is fine. I am politer when it comes to Judaism and Islam as I am not of those faiths and it’s easy to confuse cultural with religious norms and end up looking like a dick. Or even a racist dick. Which is never a good look.

Can I just go back to the point about it being absolutist.

Islam is more absolutist as Christianity is a revelation from God and we’re to expect more.

Islam says it’s the FINAL one, there is nothing else following this, this is all you need. Both are absolutist in the very nature of what the religion is with God seeing all and you having no choice but to obey but this particular part about Islam sets it slightly apart.

Islam really doesn’t lend to criticism the same way Christianity does now, maybe not in the past but now.

If I was to move to Paris and release a cartoon magazine depicting Jesus in an offensive way, I most probably wouldn’t return to work the next day to face a firing squad of aggrieved Christian fundamentalists.

 

[BobKowalski]

Can I just go back to the point about it being absolutist.

Islam is more absolutist as Christianity is a revelation from God and we’re to expect more.

Islam says it’s the FINAL one, there is nothing else following this, this is all you need. Both are absolutist in the very nature of what the religion is with God seeing all and you having no choice but to obey but this particular part about Islam sets it slightly apart.

Islam really doesn’t lend to criticism the same way Christianity does now, maybe not in the past but now.

If I was to move to Paris and release a cartoon magazine depicting Jesus in an offensive way, I most probably wouldn’t return to work the next day to face a firing squad of aggrieved Christian fundamentalists.

In Paris, Texas you probably would :)

And I’m old enough to remember ‘The Life of Brian’ being attacked by the Church, the media and councils banning the film. No one shot the Python team so there’s that I guess. I also remember Channel 4 ignoring Christmas Day and showing (if I recall correctly) Romans in Britain with the buggery scene and everyone losing their shit. Some of the press now think there is ‘ A war on Christianity’ if we don’t wish each other ‘Merry Christmas’ so we’re not entirely in the clear yet.

I have no issue with criticising any religion as I don’t see much distinction between them. But I don’t buy the anti-muslim bollocks from some Tories as anything other than a cover for their racism. Ditto the Labour Party and some it’s factions contortions over Israel and anti-semitism.

It is what it is and pox on all of it.

 

[Ban-jani]

In Paris, Texas you probably would :)

And I’m old enough to remember ‘The Life of Brian’ being attacked by the Church, the media and councils banning the film. No one shot the Python team so there’s that I guess. I also remember Channel 4 ignoring Christmas Day and showing (if I recall correctly) Romans in Britain with the buggery scene and everyone losing their shit. Some of the press now think there is ‘ A war on Christianity’ if we don’t wish each other ‘Merry Christmas’ so we’re not entirely in the clear yet.

I have no issue with criticising any religion as I don’t see much distinction between them. But I don’t buy the anti-muslim bollocks from some Tories as anything other than a cover for their racism. Ditto the Labour Party and some it’s factions contortions over Israel and anti-semitism.

It is what it is and pox on all of it.

They’re all wrong in the same way but they often take it in turns to be the most threat to civilisation.

In the early 20th century Catholicism was the biggest threat because of its treaties and partnerships with Fascism. Now you have to say it’s Islam. Who knows maybe in 50 years it’ll be Christianity’s turn again to rear it’s ugly head.

Both parties have a problem with bigotry you’re right. What I don’t like though is the word ‘Islamophobia’, using the word ‘Islam’ in it, and the actual definition of what the word means, pretty much means you can be thrown under the word by just criticising the religion. If we allow ourselves to be treated in such way, it’s a slippery slope into losing our freedom of speech to speak out against incredible stupidity and superstition.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Oh dear I thought all this smear and counter smear from factions within a political party was Labour's domain ? Seems not as the Tories clearly have their own posse of briefers trying to keep them comfortably to the right too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45208356

 

[Chippy_boy]

On the grounds it’s absolute bullshit and harmful to the progress of humanity.

Is the CORRECT answer.

Total mumbo jumbo and anyone who believes in it is an idiot, or deluded fool at best. Idiots will likely take offence at that, for which I apologise, but it doesn't change my view. There is no god. It is a ludicrous concept with no foundation in logic, science nor empirical evidence. Might as well have "faith" in supernatural gigantic turtles.