James McLean

[SWP's back]

That's precisely what I was referring to.

That’s why I like you. You have my back.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

That’s why I like you. You have my back.

I'm very loyal to my supporters.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

How is it political?

Please explain.

Me wearing a marie curie flower is that political too?

McLean wrongly chose to try and make the poppy political imo.

It's political because it seeks to deflect from political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place.

There was no need to fight the First World War. None. It was a result of political macho posturing in the same way that Trump is posturing over North Korea. It started as a result of Serbian militant nationalism and the subsequent loss of face to Austro-Hungarian pride. And instead of our politicians being real statesman and helping deflate the tension, they stoked it & dragged us into something that was fuck-all to do with us. So because no one would take a step back, millions died.

And if WWI hadn't been fought, there would almost certainly not have been an even more catastrophic second war. And without WWII, there probably wouldn't have been wars in Korea, Vietnam & the Balkans, plus many lower-level conflicts in the Middle East & Africa.

So the poppy, whatever its original purpose, is a deliberate piece of political deflection, taking the focus away from the mistakes of the political class that led to war and onto the sacrifice of those poor sods & their families who had to pay the price of those mistakes, most of whom had no fucking choice but to put their lives on the line.

 

[DelToro]

It's political because it seeks to deflect from political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place.

There was no need to fight the First World War. None. It was a result of political macho posturing in the same way that Trump is posturing over North Korea. It started as a result of Serbian militant nationalism and the subsequent loss of face to Austro-Hungarian pride. And instead of our politicians being real statesman and helping deflate the tension, they stoked it & dragged us into something that was fuck-all to do with us. So because no one would take a step back, millions died.

And if WWI hadn't been fought, there would almost certainly not have been an even more catastrophic second war. And without WWII, there probably wouldn't have been wars in Korea, Vietnam & the Balkans, plus many lower-level conflicts in the Middle East & Africa.

So the poppy, whatever its original purpose, is a deliberate piece of political deflection, taking the focus away from the mistakes of the political class that led to war and onto the sacrifice of those poor sods & their families who had to pay the price of those mistakes, most of whom had no fucking choice but to put their lives on the line.

Nope.

First World War arose out of German Nationalism which had been developing since the 1870s and incorporated the philosophy of Nietzsche.

The Germans had created a military strategy based entirely on the offensive. The French strategy was entirely defensive other than reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine.

The British had virtually created Belgium (or to be more precise Lord Palmerston created it) to act as a neutral buffer between Germany and France because it was perfect marching territory. Belgium’s guaranteed neutrality was to counteract aggression, particularly from Germany, because to avoid Belgium meant that a right wing flanking manoeuvre was impossible and therefore comquest of France significantly harder.

Britain would not have sent troops to fight had the Germans not insisted on invading France through Belgium. The problem was German nationalism – it was simply inconceivable to the Germans not to have a war with France. The fact that they didn’t care to invade a neutral country and hence have Britain against them was, for them, a minor irritant.

The Germans simply wanted an excuse – Serbia gave it to them but they would have found one in any case. All the politics in the world could not have stopped Germany starting a war.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It's political because it seeks to deflect from political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place.

There was no need to fight the First World War. None. It was a result of political macho posturing in the same way that Trump is posturing over North Korea. It started as a result of Serbian militant nationalism and the subsequent loss of face to Austro-Hungarian pride. And instead of our politicians being real statesman and helping deflate the tension, they stoked it & dragged us into something that was fuck-all to do with us. So because no one would take a step back, millions died.

And if WWI hadn't been fought, there would almost certainly not have been an even more catastrophic second war. And without WWII, there probably wouldn't have been wars in Korea, Vietnam & the Balkans, plus many lower-level conflicts in the Middle East & Africa.

So the poppy, whatever its original purpose, is a deliberate piece of political deflection, taking the focus away from the mistakes of the political class that led to war and onto the sacrifice of those poor sods & their families who had to pay the price of those mistakes, most of whom had no fucking choice but to put their lives on the line.

Well I disagree. I think that's a pretty strange way of looking at it to be honest. Perhaps you should read about the origin of the Poppy and the remembrance appeal. Because at the moment your post above just reads like a crazy conspiracy theory. Ps thanks but I also know my history.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Nope.

First World War arose out of German Nationalism which had been developing since the 1870s and incorporated the philosophy of Nietzsche.

The Germans had created a military strategy based entirely on the offensive. The French strategy was entirely defensive other than reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine.

The British had virtually created Belgium (or to be more precise Lord Palmerston created it) to act as a neutral buffer between Germany and France because it was perfect marching territory. Belgium’s guaranteed neutrality was to counteract aggression, particularly from Germany, because to avoid Belgium meant that a right wing flanking manoeuvre was impossible and therefore comquest of France significantly harder.

Britain would not have sent troops to fight had the Germans not insisted on invading France through Belgium. The problem was German nationalism – it was simply inconceivable to the Germans not to have a war with France. The fact that they didn’t care to invade a neutral country and hence have Britain against them was, for them, a minor irritant.

The Germans simply wanted an excuse – Serbia gave it to them but they would have found one in any case. All the politics in the world could not have stopped Germany starting a war.

I would agree with this account !

 

[SWP's back]

It's political because it seeks to deflect from political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place.

Whilst the rest of your post is historically accurate on the whole (WW2 onwards), your point (that it’s political) is based on the the assertion “it seeks to deflect from the political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place”. You’ve not actually backed that up, just repeated your view that it does.

How so?

 

[urban genie]

Nope.

First World War arose out of German Nationalism which had been developing since the 1870s and incorporated the philosophy of Nietzsche.

The Germans had created a military strategy based entirely on the offensive. The French strategy was entirely defensive other than reclaiming Alsace-Lorraine.

The British had virtually created Belgium (or to be more precise Lord Palmerston created it) to act as a neutral buffer between Germany and France because it was perfect marching territory. Belgium’s guaranteed neutrality was to counteract aggression, particularly from Germany, because to avoid Belgium meant that a right wing flanking manoeuvre was impossible and therefore comquest of France significantly harder.

Britain would not have sent troops to fight had the Germans not insisted on invading France through Belgium. The problem was German nationalism – it was simply inconceivable to the Germans not to have a war with France. The fact that they didn’t care to invade a neutral country and hence have Britain against them was, for them, a minor irritant.

The Germans simply wanted an excuse – Serbia gave it to them but they would have found one in any case. All the politics in the world could not have stopped Germany starting a war.

Pretty sure it has been established Kaiser Bill was pissed off he never became King when Vicky died and the first world war was a hissy fit between arguing members of the same royal families (that included Britain, Germany and Russia) that they played out through their poor subjects, as the many alliances that were built up over years of empire building by them and their governments all failed to stop them from actually sitting down and avoiding conflict.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Whilst the rest of your post is historically accurate on the whole (WW2 onwards), your point (that it’s political) is based on the the assertion “it seeks to deflect from the political incompetence that caused the wars in the first place”. You’ve not actually backed that up, just repeated your view that it does.

How so?

I did back it up but perhaps incompetence is the wrong word. Instead of politicians doing what they should have done and look for ways to resolve the situation, they were only too happy to rush into a war. Chabal seeks to blame German militarism but all the great powers glorified their military prowess and were desperate for a chance to use their firepower. We fought the Boer War, the Mahdi in The Sudan & the Crimean War. Were any of those necessary?

 

[peoffrey]

After Ireland leapfrogged Wales in the World Cup qualifiers, numerous Blues on Twitter started retweeting the McClean goal dubbed with the Titanic music to try and rub it in against the Welsh. They're improbably the same fans who boo McClean every time he touches the ball v us.

The poppy has become a politicised symbol in recent years. I've known people with deeply racist views walking round with an enamel poppy badge and a Help for Heroes wristband on all year round. It's becoming a symbol of the far right just like the union flag has.