slicky202
Well-Known Member
Great post! We try and predict what the club is likely to do and what we think the clubs budget is. It may not be 'our' money but it is money after all and no one likes throwing it away.
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Jonny Evans
- Thread starter Tanzeylee
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Great post! We try and predict what the club is likely to do and what we think the clubs budget is. It may not be 'our' money but it is money after all and no one likes throwing it away.
eversince 76
Well-Known Member
Ric, you are normally the voice of reason but I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of your post here.
£25 million is crazy even in this market. I thought one of the points of going for Evans is he was cheap. I don't think its turning out that way.
The argument that what City pay for a player is irrelevant because it doesn't affect the poster personally is the most repeated brain dead argument I see on BM. If that was a legitimate argument there wouldn't be any point in a forum since the vast majority of what City do doesn't affect us personally. The amount is relevant because if affects where the remainder of our budget is spent as a lot of people who support this transfer are pointing out.
While I agree that City won't care much about how a player is received there will likely be a little consideration. Remember how Milan binned 100 million for Kaka partly due to the fans reaction to selling him.
You might be correct on the job he will do for us we will have to wait and see but I think City quite often pick a CH with the premise that he will do for now. It's been going on a long time with millions wasted on the likes of Mangala Slavic and Nastasic.
It's clear that we need a striker and a CH. it's debatable which is more important and a close run thing but for me our reliance on Kompany is our weak point.
It may help when we see the overall plan City have in mind with the remaining budget but right now a 29 year old CH from WBA for £25 million looks like another signing that will be thrown in an expensive bin very soon. Lastly I don't think he is the sort of player who will improve us, except in an emergency, and is a panic buy.
The fact that he is ex United is irrelevant to me.
I totally agree with this post.
May I add that people who say 'the money doesn''t affect me' easily forget about ticketprizes and even seasontickets that have gone up considderably?
As for the player Evans, a name absolutely nobody came up with in anu possible way up until it was mentioned in this week papers, the thing is Guardiola wants his team to defend on the opposite half to get the ball back asap. If we have the ball the opponent can't create chances or score goals. That's why his teams need defenders that can do that little bit more than the usual orders given to them. And that's where I fear Evans most. At 29 he needs to addapt to that and turn out to be clever enough to defend the way Pep wants him. I'm sure Pep and his staff have looked at Evans and didn't come up with this player out of nothing, but my opinion is he will be proven wrong. As long as it doesn't cost us points I don't mind, because Evans will soon find out he'll be on the bench more often than he wants to be. Very happy to eat humble pie though ...
mosssideblue
Well-Known Member
you would be wrongMangala
avoidconfusion
Well-Known Member
This is Javi Garcia, Jo, Santa Cruz, Rodwell etc. All over again. Average player who is simply not good enough. I cannot believe we haven't got an Academy player who could do the job instead or keep Denayer.
Brightwell’s left peg
Well-Known Member
Simonprice is irrelevant.
the fact that he played for utd is irrelevant.
the fact that he is a bang average player in a pivotal position is the only thing of relevance and that is a huge problem...we hsve spent numerous transfer windows looking for a decent centre half and we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel and as soo as he steps into a team playing a high defensive line there will be problems
-Price is relevant, and it's too much.
-The fact he played for utd is relevant to a lot of city fans, and the fact he was let go because he wasn't good enough for that shower of shite is more relevant.
- I agree with your last point.
This is the type of signing we made when we were desperate and hard up...except the £25M bit.
blueparrot
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Things change, Alves started that, Kolarov left ,then we probably haven't got the income from outgoings we were aiming for, so yes he could be 4th or 5th , but he's our 4th choice Kolarov replacement that's the right place to make the cut backs. He's probably a better defender than Kolarov.Remember the transfer team presentation at the CFA open day last season.
They have a list of players in each area of the field they want to buy. Or are looking to buy.
They try and buy the player who is at the top of each list.
Then they work their way down the list until they buy a player.
Where in that list is Jonny Evans. 4th? 5th? Maybe 3rd?? Certainly not 1st or 2nd.
There's a small problem with that logic. Start of the summer, we're not looking to buy a 4th choice CB because we had Kolarov for that role. Fair fucks to Pep for transforming Kola into a serviceable backup because I thought his career was over. Numerous reliable journalists reported earlier this summer that we wanted to move Otamendi and spend big on a 1st choice CB, one who would start with Kompany, with Stones playing occasionally as Kompany's game time would have to be managed even if he is not injured. Then the unexpected happened and Kolarov wanted to leave, so we're kinda forced to buy a 4th choice CB now and in turn had to ditch the idea of buying an expensive 1st choice CB (remember both of our initial targets, VVD and Bonucci declined). The only names for the 4th choice CB that we've been linked with are Inigo Martinez, Gibson and Evans. I think Evans is the best of those 3 considering he ticks 2 very important boxes (HG and experienced). Gibson and Martinez both tick only one of that.Remember the transfer team presentation at the CFA open day last season.
They have a list of players in each area of the field they want to buy. Or are looking to buy.
They try and buy a player who is at the top of thst list.
Then they work their way down the list until they buy a player.
Where in that list is Jonny Evans. 4th? 5th? Maybe 3rd?? Certainly not 1st or 2nd.
Ric, you are normally the voice of reason but I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of your post here.
£25 million is crazy even in this market. I thought one of the points of going for Evans is he was cheap. I don't think its turning out that way.
The argument that what City pay for a player is irrelevant because it doesn't affect the poster personally is the most repeated brain dead argument I see on BM. If that was a legitimate argument there wouldn't be any point in a forum since the vast majority of what City do doesn't affect us personally. The amount is relevant because if affects where the remainder of our budget is spent as a lot of people who support this transfer are pointing out.
While I agree that City won't care much about how a player is received there will likely be a little consideration. Remember how Milan binned 100 million for Kaka partly due to the fans reaction to selling him.
You might be correct on the job he will do for us we will have to wait and see but I think City quite often pick a CH with the premise that he will do for now. It's been going on a long time with millions wasted on the likes of Mangala Slavic and Nastasic.
It's clear that we need a striker and a CH. it's debatable which is more important and a close run thing but for me our reliance on Kompany is our weak point.
It may help when we see the overall plan City have in mind with the remaining budget but right now a 29 year old CH from WBA for £25 million looks like another signing that will be thrown in an expensive bin very soon. Lastly I don't think he is the sort of player who will improve us, except in an emergency, and is a panic buy.
The fact that he is ex United is irrelevant to me.
I'm not sure why its a panic buy. It seems fairly considered to me. We haven't been chasing centre backs all summer, the club have indicated that centre back isnt a major priority, at least not compared to full backs. We've given Kompany all summer to prove his fitness. We've given Mangala opportunities to prove to Pep that he would make a suitable back up and it seems he's failed the audition. We need another centre back and have waited until we've assessed Kompany's fitness before deciding that it doesnt need to be a major signing. If Kompany pulls up during September, then clearly the signing of Evans would be criticised. But it would be criticised as an act of complacency rather than panic.
I also disagree that we pick our centre halves on the premises that they will do for now. Otamendi was signed to be first choice. Mangala and Stones certainly werent stop gap signings.
If Evans has a dodgy first game then the crowd will be on his back. If he does ok then he will quickly become one of those players who might be unloved but will provoke apathy rather than hostility.
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Things change, Alves started that, Kolarov left ,then we probably haven't got the income from outgoings we were aiming for, so yes he could be 4th or 5th , but he's our 4th choice Kolarov replacement that's the right place to make the cut backs. He's probably a better defender than Kolarov.
He absolutely is, hadn't looked at it that way.
It's a panic buy for those who think we're buying Evans because we could not land VVD or Bonucci. That's not true. Evans is a replacement for Kolarov - a left-footed CB who can also play LB occasionally. I can bet my life savings on the fact that City will sell Otamendi next summer and buy an expensive 1st choice CB.I'm not sure why its a panic buy. It seems fairly considered to me. We haven't been chasing centre backs all summer, the club have indicated that centre back isnt a major priority, at least not compared to full backs. We've given Kompany all summer to prove his fitness. We've given Mangala opportunities to prove to Pep that he would make a suitable back up and it seems he's failed the audition. We need another centre back and have waited until we've assessed Kompany's fitness before deciding that it doesnt need to be a major signing. If Kompany pulls up during September, then clearly the signing of Evans would be criticised. But it would be criticised as an act of complacency rather than panic.
I also disagree that we pick our centre halves on the premises that they will do for now. Otamendi was signed for the here and now. Mangala and Stones certainly werent stop gap signings.
If Evans has a dodgy first game then the crowd will be on his back. If he does ok then he will quickly become one of those players who might be unloved but will provoke apathy rather than hostility.
- We need defensive cover
- It's Kompany who is most susceptible so that player needs to be experienced. Probably wont be an automatic starter so that player needs to be able to come in and do a job when required - not take 6 months to get up to speed
- Premier League rule states that cubs must include eight Home Grown players out of a squad of 25.
I think City quite often pick a CH with the premise that he will do for now. It's been going on a long time with millions wasted on the likes of Mangala Savic and Nastasic.
Surely all three of those were bought on the premise that they were very promising young defenders who could develop into stalwarts of the team for years to come. It just didn't work out, or not with us - Savic in particular has established himself elsewhere at a pretty high level. Evans if he comes is obviously the opposite - experienced, knows the Prem league, can do a job for a year or two, will accept not necessarily being a regular first choice.
That team had just won the title and he's since gone on to do very well at WBA.Simon
-Price is relevant, and it's too much.
-The fact he played for utd is relevant to a lot of city fans, and the fact he was let go because he wasn't good enough for that shower of shite is more relevant.
- I agree with your last point.
This is the type of signing we made when we were desperate and hard up...except the £25M bit.
Granted he's not in Kompany's class, but who do you suggest who is home grown?
We're talking about defensive cover here. Not a replacement for Kompany or Stones. That seems to have been lost on many.
dachoosen1
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Name me another option for less then 25mil? Keane was 30mil and isn't as good neither is Gibson who is quoted similar figures. And you are correct in stating Evans is a do for now signing but you are wrong comparing him to those players they were signed based on potential and the belief that that could adjust to the league and those risks didn't pay off Evans is a very low risk signing. Bar stones and Cahill Evans is the best home grown CB out there in my opinion. His fee is high but the market is mad, watch him play left sided CB, comfortable with either foot, good on the ball, good in the air, good positioning which helps as he isn't the fastest, strong and determined. If he wasn't a rag most people would be happier purely based on football not money or past its hard to think of reasons why he wouldnt be a great addition to the teamsheet.Ric, you are normally the voice of reason but I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of your post here.
£25 million is crazy even in this market. I thought one of the points of going for Evans is he was cheap. I don't think its turning out that way.
The argument that what City pay for a player is irrelevant because it doesn't affect the poster personally is the most repeated brain dead argument I see on BM. If that was a legitimate argument there wouldn't be any point in a forum since the vast majority of what City do doesn't affect us personally. The amount is relevant because if affects where the remainder of our budget is spent as a lot of people who support this transfer are pointing out.
While I agree that City won't care much about how a player is received there will likely be a little consideration. Remember how Milan binned 100 million for Kaka partly due to the fans reaction to selling him.
You might be correct on the job he will do for us we will have to wait and see but I think City quite often pick a CH with the premise that he will do for now. It's been going on a long time with millions wasted on the likes of Mangala Slavic and Nastasic.
It's clear that we need a striker and a CH. it's debatable which is more important and a close run thing but for me our reliance on Kompany is our weak point.
It may help when we see the overall plan City have in mind with the remaining budget but right now a 29 year old CH from WBA for £25 million looks like another signing that will be thrown in an expensive bin very soon. Lastly I don't think he is the sort of player who will improve us, except in an emergency, and is a panic buy.
The fact that he is ex United is irrelevant to me.
come-on-barney
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you would be wrong
Well if we did our due diligence would hate to see us when we don't.
The Doctor
Well-Known Member
Excellent article Ric£25m is excessive, but we're clearly operating in a hugely inflated market. Besides, I don't care much about transfer fees, it doesn't really have any impact on me personally so it's hard to give too much of a shit. There's no way he'll be on £140k a week either.
As mentioned, I'm not particularly excited about the move but am surprised by the level of hostility. The notion that Guardiola will give a fuck what the fans think is fanciful at best.
I think he'll do a better job than many expect. There aren't many left sided, experienced, home grown centre backs out there, so think it's a fairly pragmatic signing in that respect. I haven't seen many viable alternatives suggested in this thread, put it that way.
BlueS
Well-Known Member
Have we signed him yet or are we still knocking on Evans door?
We never undertook due diligence?? Not saying they worked out or otherwise, but we do our homework
Very True.
We scouted Mangala for months but all the scouting in the world won't tell us if a defender from a relatively laid back league will cut it in the fast, aggressive Premiership. Always going to be a gamble on some level. That's unavoidable. We do control the size of the gamble though.
Sometimes we seem a little too enamoured with expensive foreign gambles and have very poor judgement when it comes to assessing their guts. We could have picked up Dijk from Celtic. And if it didn't work out it cost a third of what we wasted.
There's a lot to be said for having options we know can do us a job if they have to. Leicester won with Morgan and Huth and I cannot help but think there are other 'ain't nothing special but can do a job if they have to' CB's in the top 2 divisions that don't carry a twenty mill plus price tag and Red baggage.
Okay it isn't my money but I just hate having the piss taken, even vicariously. Our apparent 'Shut up and take our money' negotiating strategy once we set our mind on a player just encourages it. I can just see us paying thirty mill for Evans before this is over.
The cynic in me says - just go sign whoever it looks like Southampton would sign to replace Dijk. Or just not sign anyone and give some of our own lads a chance.
And now to totally undermine my own argument about guts and British experience guarantees - Bony.
Man did I call that one wrong at the time. (Insert red faced emoji here).
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