Jude Bellingham

[Churchlawtonblue]

Not nearly everyone. Everyone. And now because he's delivering for England whilst Phil isn't, he's average.

Strange how the human mind works. Also sadly predictable.

I want Bellingham to do well, but let's be totally honest aside from two goals he has been anonymous in this England side. Phil had been deliberately stuck out on the left wing where he doesn't play.

 

[youngbob]

I wanted him here to play alongside KDB in the box to box role he had at Dortmund.

He is not a 10 however and hasn’t produced any good performances in any game I’ve seen him play this year. Will be interesting to see how he does next season assuming he goes back into midfield.

I think a great many of England problems would be solved by playing him alongside Rice, with Foden 10 and Eze or Gordon on the left ( oh and by having a left sided left back).

Agreed. His best moments at this tournament (aside from the goals) have come from the rare moments when he's dropped deep and surveyed what's in front of him instead of trying to link up play on the edge of the box. He's the guy Southgate thinks he's missing next to Rice - the Henderson/Phillips type - but he's actually right there. Southgate's just not a very functional thinker and doesn't know what international football's actually about. Bellingham's not a link-up guy or a nimble 10 - if anything he's a target man. Ancelotti figured it out after about two games that Bellingham's no good behind the striker - he either is the striker or has to be kept away from him. Funnily enough, as much as Southgate's not much of a functional thinker, he might have accidentally stumbled on the formation that will get England to the final in the last 10 mins of the Slovakia game.

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Konsa
Trippier, Bellingham, Rice, Shaw
Foden
Kane, Toney

One of the big, big problems England have always had - for as long as I've been alive anyway - is thinking that they have to cram (ostensibly) special players into the positions they want to play. I don't know if it's an ego thing or something else, but there's this constant idea in England teams that the top players with big egos have to play where they want and that there's no wiggle room. "Gerrard and Lampard simply have to play in the middle - doesn't matter how many tournaments we get knocked out of because they're both constantly beyond the ball"; "Kane simply must play up front because he's Harry Kane, never mind if Jamie Vardy retires because we never play him"; "Bellingham must play behind Kane because we need him in attacking positions, it doesn't matter if he's clogging up the middle of the pitch and forcing Foden wide", etc. International football is all about mending and making do with what you've got, but with England it ends up being about shoving square pegs in round holes because the top dogs want all the glory. Every international team that's won a tournament has done it by making sure the more dominant players in the dressing room do the grunt work as much as the more deferential, quieter types.

I know hindsight's 20/20 but you get people looking at England teams from the 2000s and asking, "How did this team not win anything?!" Sometimes it was was because of injuries (Sven's England were always unlucky in that regard) but the majority of the time it was because players like Paul Scholes, Owen Hargreaves, and Nicky Butt were overlooked or shoved into positions they couldn't play because Gerrard and Lampard simply had to start every game in the midfield. The same thing's happening with England now, where Foden, Palmer, Gordon, etc. are either being started out of position or being left out entirely because Bellingham simply must play behind the striker. Doesn't matter that he's never played there in his life, doesn't matter that he's stinking the place out, doesn't matter that Foden and Palmer have both played there all season - Bellingham gets what Bellingham wants. You don't see this with countries who win these tournaments. Southgate's not strong enough to tell Bellingham to stay deep - and that's if he even notices the benefits of a Bellingham-Rice pairing in the first place. You don't see this shit happening with Spain or Germany (one of whom will win the tournament) because they've all just got their heads down and got on with it.

 

[goatfeeder100]

The season before he had a dip in form and Pep actually dropped him for a few games.

The point is every player will have a dip in form. In KDBs case though they have been fleeting and he’s always bounced back to the top player we all know he is

Of course. All the greats have dips in form. Obviously. That's usually offset by a consistently world class body of work across a long period hence the world class classification. Bellingham on the other hand simply hasn't been around long enough at the very top level to fit in the same category. In fact in all the genuinely big games he's featured in he's been peripheral at best with odd moments of quality thrown in there. Much more needed from him. Time on his side though to develop more I mean he only turned 13 the other day.

 

[normskih]

Bellingham at present has these odd moments of world class ability. Not many in the England squad can score the kind of goal that he got the other day.
In terms of being consistently a world class performer over 90 minutes he's a long way off it from the full matches I've watched him play in for Madrid and England.
We live in an age where people mostly consume bitesized clips and viral moments, and form an overall opinion based on that. So when people see that overhead kick on repeat and clips of the unnecessary backheels and skills he has on the ball, they confuse that for someone who's performing well above his peers consistently thru a full game. Hence the over the top hype that people heap upon him.
I've got a mate who's still adamant even now that he pisses all over Rordi in terms of class and still calls Bellingham a proven world class player now. Mental to me. Being capable of world class moments every so often isn't enough when the rest of your game is pretty ineffectual.
The attitude stuff I don't really care about and I remain confused as to why people waste their own energy by being so up in arms about that side of him.

I think that’s a fair assessment. I think he has a lot of ability, I would have preferred it if he’d have signed for us instead of Real Madrid. Do I think he’s better than Rodri, do I thump. Do I think he’s a world class player, in my opinion as it’s a forum, not yet, but he has the makings of one. Things like that overhead kick does make you pretty special but you have to do ‘things’ on the pitch most matches, not one in four. He’s young and will get better.

 

[robbieh]

Everyone talking about pushing him back and having Phil at 10.

I remember one England game, a friendly where Foden played very deep, controlling the game, long Hoddleseque passes. He can do this.

Bellingham for me should be further forward.

 

[ShorehamCitizen]

His excuse regarding his scrotum scrunch being an in-joke with his chums, is just as believable as Stefan Effenberg and the South Korean supporters at USA 94 in which he said it was at them and not Berti Vogts.

 

[super_city_si]

Everyone talking about pushing him back and having Phil at 10.

I remember one England game, a friendly where Foden played very deep, controlling the game, long Hoddleseque passes. He can do this.

Bellingham for me should be further forward.

I was saying same v Slovakia. Rice was playing more the left sided pivot and every time he got the ball he had his back to the opposition goal and either passed it back to the defender or passed to the right side (infield)

Never once did he take it on a half turn and try to progress or even think about using his left foot. There was zero feed to the left.

We have way too many right footed players who are completely one dimensional.

I’d love foden dropping back in there. He did a little v denmark and looked good.

 

[mattcity5]

Everyone talking about pushing him back and having Phil at 10.

I remember one England game, a friendly where Foden played very deep, controlling the game, long Hoddleseque passes. He can do this.

Bellingham for me should be further forward.

Spot on.

If you have Bellingham and Rice behind Foden, you risk Foden not getting many touches. If you stick Foden as an 8 he can do what he wants, influence the game more, and Bellingham can continue to drift in and out of games but hopefully pop up with goals.

 

[Vienna_70]

There’s never been a player in history as good as Bellingham thinks he is.

There was saying years ago, for Barton, I think, but it might apply equally to Bellend:

If he was twice the player he is, he still wouldn’t be half the player he thinks he is.

 

[Vienna_70]

Bellingham at present has these odd moments of world class ability. Not many in the England squad can score the kind of goal that he got the other day.
In terms of being consistently a world class performer over 90 minutes he's a long way off it from the full matches I've watched him play in for Madrid and England.
We live in an age where people mostly consume bitesized clips and viral moments, and form an overall opinion based on that. So when people see that overhead kick on repeat and clips of the unnecessary backheels and skills he has on the ball, they confuse that for someone who's performing well above his peers consistently thru a full game. Hence the over the top hype that people heap upon him.
I've got a mate who's still adamant even now that he pisses all over Rordi in terms of class and still calls Bellingham a proven world class player now. Mental to me. Being capable of world class moments every so often isn't enough when the rest of your game is pretty ineffectual.
The attitude stuff I don't really care about and I remain confused as to why people waste their own energy by being so up in arms about that side of him.

Mrs Vienna has just said that Bellend isn’t fit to clean Rodri's boots.