Keir Starmer

[west didsblue]

Always puzzles me that "centrists" froth at the mouth when Tories lie but give this **** a free pass.

Because Tory lies have a direct impact on our lives. Starmer changing his position on things has no effect at all.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Always puzzles me that "centrists" froth at the mouth when Tories lie but give this **** a free pass.

His 'relationship with the truth' is shaky to say the least. Sadly Johnson, Cummings, Hancock etc have lowered the bar so far in terms of honesty and integrity in public office that starmer seems broadly acceptable.

 

[urban genie]

Always puzzles me why those on the Labour left that hate Starmer also didn’t like the last Labour government when it was probably the best government this country has had since Wilson in the sixties. Most people in this country are fairly centrist in their views and now that the Tories have morphed into UKIP with a selection of nutters and idiots in government and on the back benches, there’s really no alternative to Labour. The only way Labour can lose it is by throwing away their centrist credentials that Starmer has fought so hard to put in place.

There is a big difference to the 1997 labour party leadership than now, only idiots compare starmer to blair.

blair for his faults was a better leader and politician for one and also stuck to what he believed in unlike starmer who will change ideals for likes, also Blair employed different parts of the party to achieve his goals, that is why you had Brown, Straw, Prescott, Blunkett, Beckett etc, a mix that ranged from left, center and blue labour.

Starmer has a buerocratic almost stalinist need to purge anything that is evenly slightly off his message, and a need for complete control and obedience, something that is the antithesis of what labour has always stood for, unity, tollerance or ideas, collectiveness.

Also he will lie and change his views at a drop without an hinest word from his lips

Plus the overton window has shifted over the last 40 years rightwards, and what was blairs centerism now is left of starmers, which is more closely atuned to Cameron and Osborunea soft conservatism.

I have abandoned labour natioanlly now as it does not represent my values even those that are centre left, at least under Blair it still, at core was a soft left party with some neo-liberal lurches, now it is nothing I recognise as Labour

 

[Postman Pep]

It feels like the Labour Party will be dammed whatever they do. I’ve no idea why Starmer has chosen this hill to fight on, he’s not coming across as a strategic thinker here, just someone who doesn’t want any lefties in the Labour Party. Moreover he is creating an environment where you either agree with him or you’re gone - a dictatorship in all but name. No checks and balances to his folly (which he will have). I guess you need to be in the rose network to be one of his sort.

In terms of choosing to fight this factional war and in Mandelson's words, 'seal the tomb on the left' it goes beyond Starmer. It's just that in many ways he was the perfect man for the job. Although he has a long career in public life he has only been an MP for 8 years and an easy sell as a 'unity' candidate. His earlier, less high profile, career goes some way to explaining his 'top down' managerial style. This is worth a watch if you've an hour spare.



Interesting segment on his Brexit machinations within it.

Be interesting to see how the grass roots view the purge of the left, getting these folk out knocking on doors and campaigning might be a bit harder than he thinks right now. Sure you’ll get some who would vote for a pig if it had a red rosette on it, I guess he is hoping for enough lethargy that only those type of Labour voters bother plus enough “dissatisfied” tories who are happy to vote for Sir Tory Starmer.

I suppose the only way to truly gauge that will be election time but they are where they are in the polls because of the Tory implosion and nothing else. Nobody appears to be paying much attention to what Labour are all about which is understandable to a degree given the anger at the Tories but they are also getting a free pass from the media ... case in point today. No mention of EHRC or AS in the justification yet no pushback. Obviously the reason it's missing is it wouldn't withstand a legal challenge because it's built on sand .... just like their poll lead.

As you said earlier we are in a one party nation right now. A strong opposition anchors the government of the day nearer the centre than their ideologies - this Labour Party on the right can surely only send the Tory party further to the right, sure it might make them unelectable but at what cost.

Again examplified just today with the Tory crackdown announcements. Just like on 'stop the boats' Labour aren't attacking them on their callousness but on their efficiency. Starmer made a similar moral panic laden pitch just last week but nobody was listening apparently.

 

[Postman Pep]

Centrists are just that, centrists.

Most are just to the left of centre economically and just to the right socially and are of one opinion in that they want rid of the Tories but want a government that represents them and their political beliefs.

Blair have them that and it’s no coincidence his dominance politically.

Economically to the left? I recommend a resit of 6th form politics:)

 

[urban genie]

Can I point out Sixth fromers don't sit and discuss politics, they smoke weed, shoplift, play cards and try and get a shag, from the ones I see daily

 

[Postman Pep]

Unfortunately and perhaps unfairly Iraq probably remains the lasting memory of that govt. As far as the country having a feelgood factor and general prosperity goes it's hard to think of a better time than 1999-2002 in the last fifty years.

Tbh it was reading about PFI contracts whilst laid up in hospital that did it for me, I'd seen enough by 2001.
Some of them run until 2055. Might be worth adding them to the Blair legacy chart which will probably still in circulation at that point. Talk about moving on :)
Anyway while we are reminiscing here's a throwback to a youthful Keith .... haven't those lies aged him.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

He isn’t daft. Country will vote in a Blair clone and nothing else so that is what he will turn himself and the party into.

It’s electable and it gets rid of the Tories.

Left wing fantasy is best left for this forum and sixth form common rooms.

Fine and dandy by me.

 

[Postman Pep]

 

[Indaparkside]

There is a big difference to the 1997 labour party leadership than now, only idiots compare starmer to blair.

blair for his faults was a better leader and politician for one and also stuck to what he believed in unlike starmer who will change ideals for likes, also Blair employed different parts of the party to achieve his goals, that is why you had Brown, Straw, Prescott, Blunkett, Beckett etc, a mix that ranged from left, center and blue labour.

Starmer has a buerocratic almost stalinist need to purge anything that is evenly slightly off his message, and a need for complete control and obedience, something that is the antithesis of what labour has always stood for, unity, tollerance or ideas, collectiveness.

Also he will lie and change his views at a drop without an hinest word from his lips

Plus the overton window has shifted over the last 40 years rightwards, and what was blairs centerism now is left of starmers, which is more closely atuned to Cameron and Osborunea soft conservatism.

I have abandoned labour natioanlly now as it does not represent my values even those that are centre left, at least under Blair it still, at core was a soft left party with some neo-liberal lurches, now it is nothing I recognise as Labour

What a load of shite Blair should have been charged with war crimes in Iraq, weapons of mass destruction my arse 1,000’s of innocent women, children and men killed on a lie