When I was a kid in the 90s Manchester Music Service (part of the council) would lend you a musical instrument for free if you had lessons from them. I don't know if the lessons cost or not (my parents would have been able to afford it if they did - I'm not trying to claim Working Class Cred), but certainly you didn't have to pay for an instrument.
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
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There's a weird thing in Britain where we don't really talk about class when it comes to black people, or (to a certain extent) other minorities either. I think people perceive Abbott as kind of loosely classless, they're just focused on her race. It's like how the only discussion about the working class you get in most of media and politics is about "the white working class", as if that's the only type of working class person that really exists in the UK.What's the difference between working class and lower middle class?
Isn't personal circumstances and security a big part of it?
Starmer's mother was severely unwell and couldn't work for much of her life and he was one of four children in a household with a tradesman as the sole breadwinner.
Diane Abbott's parents worked the same or similar professions (their mothers were nurses, her father was a welder instead of a toolmaker), and they would probably have been classed as lower middle class before they emigrated from Jamaica.
Does anyone accuse Diane of not being working class despite the boarding school scholarship and the affected voice (accent and speaking style)?
urban genie
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Erm catholic schools aew state funded like CoE mine obviously thought the arts and culture were a necessary activity, plus it meant thry didn't need to pay for musicians for sunday mass ;-)Ah so the Catholic Church paid for you to learn those instruments.
And now you’re upset Starmer would like everyone else to get those opportunities as well.
Erm catholic schools aew state funded like CoE mine obviously thought the arts and culture were a necessary activity, plus it meant thry didn't need to pay for musicians for sunday mass ;-)
Erm should have been paying more attention at school, catholic schools are part funded by the local archdiocese.
Anyway the main point is that the average music lesson is £35/hour and that’s something that a lot of working class families can’t afford now, regardless of how things worked when you were growing in the 40’s ;)
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Alan Harper's Tash
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I remember learning the clarinet at primary school, taught by George Galway, James’ brother.When I was a kid in the 90s Manchester Music Service (part of the council) would lend you a musical instrument for free if you had lessons from them. I don't know if the lessons cost or not (my parents would have been able to afford it if they did - I'm not trying to claim Working Class Cred), but certainly you didn't have to pay for an instrument.
urban genie
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10% at present day standards.Erm should have been paying more attention at school, catholic schools are part funded by the local archdiocese.
not sure why you wish to trump me on this, the fact is schools in working cclass areas in the 70s/80s considered music as part of the curriculum and plenty working class kids had the opportunity to learn, all my parent had to do was pay for an accoustic guitar for me, which they did on HP and was given as a birthday present, not some random gift they could afford, as said others used local council schemes where you could borrow instruments.
obviously I only learnt piano in school not a chance I was ever owning one.
since then I am sure arts and muaic funding has been dwindled down to a pittence and school now need to prioritise money to other subjects, something Labour are commiting to change and we can all get behind that, idea that everyone can have a chance to learn the many arts.
Starmer announced a good positive policy idea, I am just saying he should use that as his main thrust of the speech not some "when I was a lad" cliched yarn, it feeds his ditractors and causes ridicule.
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Still don't get it. How is it nonsensical rubbish about being working class barred him from the opportunity - when he hasn't said that? He passed the 11 plus to a grammar school where they still did "the arts" and got a chance to go into London to a school for music on Saturdays. I just don't get why referring to that experience is a bad thing, when he wants it for others.i don't understand what ypu are not getting about my original point, which wasn't about the new labour policy thinking
I ain't disagreeing with the idea, and trust me all children should have access to learn music amd the arts
My comment was on his nosensical rubbish about being working class barred him from the opportunity, it didn't and he uses the same line for any topic.
The man is a walking cliche.
You're reading your prejudices into a good policy.
Yeah, to be proper working class it had to go on beer and fags.If your parents could afford a piano, guitar, and lessons for both I’m not sure how working class you were.
Today that’s £70 a week on lessons for one child.
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The main point is that Starmer thinks that every child should be able to learn music, regardless of what their family can afford.Erm should have been paying more attention at school, catholic schools are part funded by the local archdiocese.
Anyway the main point is that the average music lesson is £35/hour and that’s something that a lot of working class families can’t afford now, regardless of how things worked when you were growing in the 40’s ;)
What are people not getting about this?
urban genie
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obviously I am not as I have praised the policy in nearly every comment.Still don't get it. How is it nonsensical rubbish about being working class barred him from the opportunity - when he hasn't said that? He passed the 11 plus to a grammar school where they still did "the arts" and got a chance to go into London to a school for music on Saturdays. I just don't get why referring to that experience is a bad thing, when he wants it for others.
You're reading your prejudices into a good policy.
I am saying he needs to stop needlessly equating every policy to him being working class and making it sound like it was burden being so.
I am proud of my working class heritage and it never was something I needed to break from and never will, being working class didn't stop me achieving any goals, living in an capitalist society did, maybe a leader of a party that fundemently was built on oposing capitaism and bringing in a egalitarian classless society should focus on that.