Keir Starmer

[The blue phantom]

There was once a picture of Dazdon, He even started a forum up with about 25 posters and they were all him. True story. He was outed by folk on the other group years ago. Think it was Skaskion who rumbled him. It was epic.

 

[mexico1970]

Okay, thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused though, as both of these parties have gotten closer to the middle. So much so, there's a rizla paper's difference between them!

Are they not centrist now, if not right of centre??

I have said before this country can only progress in fairness and togetherness by leaning more left to centralise in the future, otherwise we just keep going down the same path, especially as these parties are, basically, a Uni-Party now.

We're now voting on personalities, not policies.

The fight right now is absurdly Labour against Labour and a power struggle for ideologies, the remnants of a nasty Corbyn group are being flushed and as you can see on here some don't like it, Starmer being labelled a Tory by his own mob.

We are now surely a one party state, centrist or centrist, not a great choice is it?

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Outwitted and outflanked by Diane Abbott.

God help us if this clown gets into power.

Are you really that dense?

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The fight right now is absurdly Labour against Labour and a power struggle for ideologies, the remnants of a nasty Corbyn group are being flushed and as you can see on here some don't like it, Starmer being labelled a Tory by his own mob.

We are now surely a one party state, centrist or centrist, not a great choice is it?

Those on the right of the Labour Party (and the centre of politics in general) have been called that since Blair came to power.

I've been called a Tory by shitloads of people on the far left and I've never voted for them once in my life. Always voted Labour, apart from under Corbyn when I just couldn't bring myself to do it and voted Lib Dem.

 

[mexico1970]

Those on the right of the Labour Party (and the centre of politics in general) have been called that since Blair came to power.

I've been called a Tory by shitloads of people on the far left and I've never voted for them once in my life. Always voted Labour, apart from under Corbyn when I just couldn't bring myself to do it and voted Lib Dem.

We have reached overdrive imho, the writing is on the wall for the spiteful part of the Labour party and they don't like it.

I'm voting for Starmer because the Tories are too shit to be even considered.

 

[urban genie]

I knew these countries would come up and as to why I tempered my point with the phrase "effective". These countries are not strictly communist in anything I've read, but have ideologies leaning more towards that than capitalism.

well depends if you actually have read any marx and engels stuff on capitalism, markets and free trade, communism allows for such as free trade, international trade and it recognises that capitalism is the dominant economic force and that it needs eventually to be replaced by a more equal model that benefits all rather than a few private owners who put profit possesion and property over people.

so yes Vietnam and china in paticular who trade extensively in the markets and internationally can be called communist even though the idea of communiam fed to us is one of repressive societies, gulags, and isolationlism, that is Juchism or starlinism, communism in Soviet nations dissapeared in 1924 and China is maoist more than anything, a mix of marxism and confucianism

Cuba is purposely not allowed to grow economically by america and Laos was treated like shite during and after the vietnam war and punished heavily by being on the Vietmanise side leaving it isolated.


some on here have no idea of the plethora of different offshoots of ideas like marxism, liberalism, conservatism and like to throw people under the simple blanket of one of the three, when it is alot more complex than that.


From what I read here there it is no marxist or traditional liberals(whiggism), there are socialists, some neo-liberals, maybe anarcho-communist/syndalists, a few conservatives and unionists, and a rare far right crank.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Okay, thanks for that.

I'm a bit confused though, as both of these parties have gotten closer to the middle. So much so, there's a rizla paper's difference between them!

Are they not centrist now, if not right of centre??

I have said before this country can only progress in fairness and togetherness by leaning more left to centralise in the future, otherwise we just keep going down the same path, especially as these parties are, basically, a Uni-Party now.

We're now voting on personalities, not policies.

This version of the Conservative Party are many things but centrist is not one of them.

There's a reason Labour are 20 points ahead in the polls, they are virtually unchallenged in the centre ground.

I'm boring myself to death saying this over and over but whoever owns the centre wins, especially when it comes to Labour. Blair (and credit to Mandelson and Campbell for masterminding the strategy and comms) is the perfect example of this.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

We have reached overdrive imho, the writing is on the wall for the spiteful part of the Labour party and they don't like it.

I'm voting for Starmer because the Tories are too shit to be even considered.

I agree. Though while I was delighted when they booted Corbyn out, as I said above personally I'd be fine with them letting Abbot stand. She isn't my brand of (New) Labour at all, but she's been mistreated and for the sake of just putting this shit behind them, it makes sense.

I was disgusted at the Tories when Johnson booted out the likes of Ken Clarke, so fair's fair, Abbott has apologised for that letter and admitted she was wrong, she deserves to contest the election.

 

[mexico1970]

I agree. Though while I was delighted when they booted Corbyn out, as I said above personally I'd be fine with them letting Abbot stand. She isn't my brand of (New) Labour at all, but she's been mistreated and for the sake of just putting this shit behind them, it makes sense.

I was disgusted at the Tories when Johnson booted out the likes of Ken Clarke, so fair's fair, Abbott has apologised for that letter and admitted she was wrong, she deserves to contest the election.

There needs to be different opinions within parties for genuine debate, no room for cults though which are dangerous.

The Tories moved in a bunch of vacuous idealogues and it has bit them on the backside, I am happy at present being a Starmer supporting Tory.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Are you really that dense?

George got in at Rochdale. Anything can happen in elections, just as they can in cup finals.