Keir Starmer

Postman Pep said:
Nice try. I'm sure if you went back and searched the thread you'd find the relevant bit where you attempted to justify staffers syphoning off election funds. From memory in the end we both agreed you were talking bollocks:)
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We both agreed? I think maybe check your memory as we don't want to both be remembering you talking bollocks now ;)

I'm sure, however, that I do agree with you, or am close enough politically, on enough issues, for us to be on the same side. The only thing I really will never understand is the Corbyn/Starmer arguments.

Unlike the fool on twitter that someone posted earlier, I've never voted anything other than Labour, and was out knocking on doors for Corbyn, despite the abuse I got in the streets. I'll do the same for Starmer, and genuinely can't understand why anyone on the left would not be wanting him to beat the Tories.
 
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Iain Mooney a councillor in Barrow has defected from Labour to the Communist Party

Seedling of a revolution.
 
domalino said:
No one wants to read a shitty blog.

If you want to make an argument, post it. If you want to provide a source, get a proper one.
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Except the broader points about the lib dems are correct.

They aren't particularly principled and will abandon policies they campaign on for a chance of power.

A viable option if you live in a marginal seat but an otherwise utterly pointless party at national level.
 
domalino said:
It's amazing how distorted a thread can seem when you log on and there's 10 new pages and they're all about how Starmer and this Labour party are the worst thing in the world and worse than the Tories.

But then you look at the names and it's 90% the same 3 or 4 people repeating themselves over and over again and liking each others posts and congratulating each other.
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That’s pretty much the case for every thread in the political forum.
 
domalino said:
It's amazing how distorted a thread can seem when you log on and there's 10 new pages and they're all about how Starmer and this Labour party are the worst thing in the world and worse than the Tories.

But then you look at the names and it's 90% the same 3 or 4 people repeating themselves over and over again and liking each others posts and congratulating each other.
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What a disingenuous post. Nobody is saying Starmer and the Labour party are the worst thing in the world,nobody is saying they are worse than the Tories, that is hyperbolic nonsense.

What the right of the Labour party never grasp is that the left actually take principled stands on certain things, like democracy and truth. The right do not share our principles, they like the Tories seek one singular outcome, power for powers sake. They do not care how it is achieved, what lies are told, what undemocratic actions are taken.

If you believe Johnson is a liar and has acted against the democratic interests, then it is only fair to judge that on Starmer's record he is also a liar who has acted against democratic interests. Does that make him worse than Johnson, no, but it makes them two cheeks of the same arse.

As for the same 3 or 4 people , what you are attempting to do here is do exactly what Starmer has done to the left, that is marginalise us from the mainstream, try to belittle and ridicule us. And people wonder why the Left hates the centrists just as much as the Tories
 
Rascal said:
What a disingenuous post. Nobody is saying Starmer and the Labour party are the worst thing in the world,nobody is saying they are worse than the Tories, that is hyperbolic nonsense.

What the right of the Labour party never grasp is that the left actually take principled stands on certain things, like democracy and truth. The right do not share our principles, they like the Tories seek one singular outcome, power for powers sake. They do not care how it is achieved, what lies are told, what undemocratic actions are taken.

If you believe Johnson is a liar and has acted against the democratic interests, then it is only fair to judge that on Starmer's record he is also a liar who has acted against democratic interests. Does that make him worse than Johnson, no, but it makes them two cheeks of the same arse.

As for the same 3 or 4 people , what you are attempting to do here is do exactly what Starmer has done to the left, that is marginalise us from the mainstream, try to belittle and ridicule us. And people wonder why the Left hates the centrists just as much as the Tories
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Is it okay to like this post Dom?
 
domalino said:
It's amazing how distorted a thread can seem when you log on and there's 10 new pages and they're all about how Starmer and this Labour party are the worst thing in the world and worse than the Tories.

But then you look at the names and it's 90% the same 3 or 4 people repeating themselves over and over again and liking each others posts and congratulating each other.
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not sure anyone has said that, in fact you find the exact same posters slagging off the tories a lot more in their respective threads.

And no one has said that labour are worse or starmer, what is being said is he is a liar and two faced **** who has no loyalty to anyone, which he clearly is.

and tbf the arguememts in politics are quite simple so responses will always be repetative as a staunch stramer fan isn't going to change because one of his detractors call him out, Politics is repetative and always has been and will be
 
Rascal said:
What a disingenuous post. Nobody is saying Starmer and the Labour party are the worst thing in the world,nobody is saying they are worse than the Tories, that is hyperbolic nonsense.

What the right of the Labour party never grasp is that the left actually take principled stands on certain things, like democracy and truth. The right do not share our principles, they like the Tories seek one singular outcome, power for powers sake. They do not care how it is achieved, what lies are told, what undemocratic actions are taken.

If you believe Johnson is a liar and has acted against the democratic interests, then it is only fair to judge that on Starmer's record he is also a liar who has acted against democratic interests. Does that make him worse than Johnson, no, but it makes them two cheeks of the same arse.

As for the same 3 or 4 people , what you are attempting to do here is do exactly what Starmer has done to the left, that is marginalise us from the mainstream, try to belittle and ridicule us. And people wonder why the Left hates the centrists just as much as the Tories
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I think this last few pages came from a post which said "Is there a bigger **** in British politics than Keir Starmer?" and the poster who shared it suggested there wasn't. Which might sound like "worse than the Tories" to some?

Your post also suggests that you're "the left", and that you're being marginalised. That might be a convenient shorthand, but it means "centrist" is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting. A friend of mine was asked the other day whether the left should just give up, as the "people" weren't left wing anymore.

I'd argue that the people are just as left wing as they ever were - but social media makes it easy for us to ghettoise ourselves in ever smaller groupings. In terms of society, ideas that would be dismissed as "lefty liberal" just a few decades ago, are totally mainstream. In terms of economics, I read just recently that young people believe more strongly in redistribution, and state intervention/support than for many, many years. People still support strikers, they still support a state NHS - no government would genuinely consider backtracking on Labour initiatives like the minimum wage, or statutory right to holidays.

When asked about values, Labour MPs and Labour members both have traditional left wing views, both economically and societally.

The left is a big place - it's not just you.
 
joe123 said:
Without policy detail it's hard to say exactly how and why they'll be better, but have made encouraging noises about green investment and more progressive tax, plus the assumption that public sector will always be higher under a labour government.
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Assumptions. The green investment does sound encouraging.... the in partnership with the private sector less so. No concerns over Streetings NHS reforms .... welcomed by Kate Andrews and JRM? How about Starmer throwing out similar red meat to the Tories on crime and immigration ?
joe123 said:
At this stage tho, the more pertinent point is that it's impossible to believe they wouldn't be better than the circus in charge which could/should be enough for a lot of people.
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So not 'infinitely better' at all. This is a more accurate assessment.
BobKowalski said:
Definitely wouldn’t go for ‘infinitely better’. I’d settle for ‘mildly competent’ or worst case scenario, ‘slightly less shit’.
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Regarding could/should be enough the question is whether this 'marginally less shite' platform translates those polling numbers into reality. You still need to get people off their arses to vote ... smacks of complacency to me.
Conversely it might lead to my preferred outcome given the paltry choice on offer. That is a hung parliament (lab biggest party) could bring electoral reform into play or a small Lab majority which gives the small rump of soft left MPs a bit of clout.
 
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