Keir Starmer

bluethrunthru said:
I think thats a bit naive - Labour should have won in 92 against Major but they didn't probably because of Kinnock's triumphalism. Then bear in mind the Blair Govt of which Starmer became a part of - they reneged on Uni fees. So what Starmer is doing is trying not to spook the horses. The Tories are so shit and are performing so badly he basically sits back and lets them carry on fucking themselves over. The calculation is he needs to do stuff that has as little impact as possible because the Tories are so disliked they will lose big style. Doesn't matter now what numbers the Tories quote - its about how people personally feel and if they feel they are no better off then its a landslide. I hope and suspect once they win and - if its a landslide - the Labour approach will be much more radical
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The Tories are also hopelessly divided (if only between those with a crumb of decency left and those without). The only time they unite is in the voting lobbies to do nasty things, or at PMQ when Sunak comes up with a weak jibe against Starmer.

I don't think it's deliberate, but flip-flopping makes him less of a moving target - except for when he's being accused of flip-flopping.

This will be the last conference before compiling the manifesto. Conference doesn't decide the manifesto like it used to, but it will give a good clue to what to expect.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
Cheers, mate. So they don’t think that closer engagement is beneficial to the UK. Is it just Twitter-sphere frothers or a genuine consensus, we’ll probably see with more debate.
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They think it’s beneficial, they just don’t believe a word Starmer says as he has a track record of changing his tune.
 
A better deal with the EU means, among other things, accepting the Four Freedoms, which he has ruled out.

It's no use saying 'I want a swim, but I don't want to get in the water or get wet.'

You can't just tell the EU what you want and get it. I thought by this time we would have at least have realised that.

The change in tone is welcome, but he's either naïve, or he dare not say what he means, or he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear. You choose.
 
To be fair the present brexit deal is shite and everyone knows it

Nowt there says we are rejoining, just agreeing new trade terms, which makes sense as we have royally fucked up the present one.

The rabid brexiteers and also those that wank themselves silly over the european union will equally be dismissive as for them it is all or nothing, no inbetween or compromise, you are fully in or fully out, I doubt the businesses and general public that suffer because of both of these tossers see it that way
 
BrianW said:
A better deal with the EU means, among other things, accepting the Four Freedoms, which he has ruled out.

It's no use saying 'I want a swim, but I don't want to get in the water or get wet.'

You can't just tell the EU what you want and get it. I thought by this time we would have at least have realised that.

The change in tone is welcome, but he's either naïve, or he dare not say what he means, or he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear. You choose.
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He’s trying to deflect from the more fundamental questions he’ll face around Brexit in the run up to the election by disingenuously talking up the prospect of renegotiating the TCA as a whole in 2025.

There’s no prospect for a major renegotiation from the EU - the bulk of the agreement works as designed given the UK’s third country status - and it’s simply an early move by Starmer to deflect and not become bogged down on the issue. Labour will presumably stick to this 2025 renegotiation rhetoric while the Conservatives will talk up the prospect of more trade deals outside of the EU, and so it could just descend into a bit of a phoney war.

The article by Munchau posted above is a fairly neat take down of Starmer’s position but it fails to highlight the areas of the TCA which will need to be renegotiated before 2025, such as electric cars, energy policy and fisheries. There is the prospect of some progress here and Starmer is right to highlight the issue of food standards, but the point is that the current government will be negotiating on several of these issues before the election and well before the 2025 review of the TCA.

So, in actual fact, Starmer is not offering anything radically different from what will begin to occur over the next few months, even if he’s open to discussions on a broader range of issues.
 
west didsblue said:
You sound very much like you’re convincing yourself to hold your nose and vote Conservative.
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I will be voting SNP purely to try and dispose our Tory MP up here as I live in one of the parts of Scotland that due to its proximity to England and it’s huge farming community is still very much Tory.
 
blueinsa said:
I will be voting SNP purely to try and dispose our Tory MP up here as I live in one of the parts of Scotland that due to its proximity to England and it’s huge farming community is still very much Tory.
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BrianW said:
A better deal with the EU means, among other things, accepting the Four Freedoms, which he has ruled out.

It's no use saying 'I want a swim, but I don't want to get in the water or get wet.'

You can't just tell the EU what you want and get it. I thought by this time we would have at least have realised that.

The change in tone is welcome, but he's either naïve, or he dare not say what he means, or he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear. You choose.
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Was listening to one of the head people from the EU today who was saying the talks with Starmer were a welcome move from the UK and that they were basically looking forward to dealing with Starmer. I was unaware that he’d met them but their must’ve been some contact for both parties to be talking in such terms.
 
urban genie said:
To be fair the present brexit deal is shite and everyone knows it

Nowt there says we are rejoining, just agreeing new trade terms, which makes sense as we have royally fucked up the present one.

The rabid brexiteers and also those that wank themselves silly over the european union will equally be dismissive as for them it is all or nothing, no inbetween or compromise, you are fully in or fully out, I doubt the businesses and general public that suffer because of both of these tossers see it that way
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You only have to listen to certain groups to see which way we should be heading. If the ERG, et al, are against it, then you know it’s got to be good for the majority.

As long as they don’t go too far and start talking about full membership then I think you’re exactly right, there will be a majority that support this policy.
 
Starmer and the Labour right wing treatment of Dianne Abbott is nothing short of disgusting.

You can smell that **** Akehurst all over it. denying local democracy and installing candidates against CLPs wishes is abominable. It is further evidence the left is being marginalised in a left wing party.

I hope she stands as an Independent and smashes it.
 
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