Keir Starmer

Rascal said:
Starmer and the Labour right wing treatment of Dianne Abbott is nothing short of disgusting.

You can smell that **** Akehurst all over it. denying local democracy and installing candidates against CLPs wishes is abominable. It is further evidence the left is being marginalised in a left wing party.

I hope she stands as an Independent and smashes it.
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Her statement is worth sharing. Imagine the noise if this kind of shit went on when the jam man was in charge. The silence speaks volumes.

 
Postman Pep said:
Her statement is worth sharing. Imagine the noise if this kind of shit went on when the jam man was in charge. The silence speaks volumes.

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Is it worth sharing though? Abbott fucked up, apologised and then is surprised the leadership use it as an excuse to screw her over. I think it’s called politics. It ain’t nice, but let’s not pretend to be shocked and surprised or that it doesn’t work both ways as those who fell foul of the Corbyn camp will testify too.

In short, there are more important things to get worked up over than a routine political knifing.
 
As for Starmer and the EU, he wants closer ties and a better deal. Everyone does. What he will not be doing is saying anything that smacks of rejoining or admitting we will be a rule-taker. I mean, being a rule-taker may be the truth but no one is going to fucking admit it.
 
BobKowalski said:
Is it worth sharing though? Abbott fucked up, apologised and then is surprised the leadership use it as an excuse to screw her over. I think it’s called politics. It ain’t nice, but let’s not pretend to be shocked and surprised or that it doesn’t work both ways as those who fell foul of the Corbyn camp will testify too.

In short, there are more important things to get worked up over than a routine political knifing.
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I was referring more to the internal shenanigans within Hackney and the shutting down of local democracy to protect the associates of the noncey ex-councillor because he was 'one of the lads'.

Also from memory the only MPs who fell foul of the Corbyn camp were a couple of sex pests. As for getting worked up over nothing have you forgotten the hysterics in previous Labour threads.
 
BayernMan said:
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We're so accustomed to politicians lying.

There clearly is a case for going back into the EU and Starmer knows it.

What he's saying with...

"I have repeatedly said that there's no case for going back into the EU"

Is...

"I have repeatedly lied that there's no case for going back into the EU"

It's his persistence and repetition of this lie that he wants us to take onboard, he wants us to know he's really committed to this lie, as opposed to the casual lies he tosses off on a daily basis.
 
The perfect fumble said:
We're so accustomed to politicians lying.

There clearly is a case for going back into the EU and Starmer knows it.

What he's saying with...

"I have repeatedly said that there's no case for going back into the EU"

Is...

"I have repeatedly lied that there's no case for going back into the EU"

It's his persistence and repetition of this lie that he wants us to take onboard, he wants us to know he's really committed to this lie, as opposed to the casual lies he tosses off on a daily basis.
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I am not the kind of person who is always looking to poke holes in Starmer because lord knows he is better than the current shower but this sort of thing does hack me off.

To say re-joining the EU is “not the right thing/is not possible to do right now” for whatever reason is one thing, to say “there’s no case for it” is incredibly disingenuous. Of course there’s a fucking case for it. It’s the same case that led to us joining it in the 70s. Whether you agree with the case or not doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
 
The perfect fumble said:
We're so accustomed to politicians lying.

There clearly is a case for going back into the EU and Starmer knows it.

What he's saying with...

"I have repeatedly said that there's no case for going back into the EU"

Is...

"I have repeatedly lied that there's no case for going back into the EU"

It's his persistence and repetition of this lie that he wants us to take onboard, he wants us to know he's really committed to this lie, as opposed to the casual lies he tosses off on a daily basis.
Click to expand...
I want us to go back into the EU but right now, with the tsunami of shit that resurrecting the whole brexit mess would bring, I'd say there is no case for us going back into the EU. Starmer is right on this one.
 
BobKowalski said:
As for Starmer and the EU, he wants closer ties and a better deal. Everyone does. What he will not be doing is saying anything that smacks of rejoining or admitting we will be a rule-taker. I mean, being a rule-taker may be the truth but no one is going to fucking admit it.
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I think where Starmer will eventually position us will be much truer to the vote in 2016, close as it was, and will hopefully have more regard and pay more respect to the 48% that voted to remain than the current abortion that we all have to endure.

It’s an absolute fucking disgrace that a vote that close has been allowed to translate into such a hard Brexit.

We should have left the EU, remained in the customs union etc.., and become, as you say, a rule taker.

Thst would have fairly and justly respected the will of the people. All this binary ‘winner takes all’ bullshit is divisive and wholly self-destructive.
 
The perfect fumble said:
We're so accustomed to politicians lying.

There clearly is a case for going back into the EU and Starmer knows it.

What he's saying with...

"I have repeatedly said that there's no case for going back into the EU"

Is...

"I have repeatedly lied that there's no case for going back into the EU"

It's his persistence and repetition of this lie that he wants us to take onboard, he wants us to know he's really committed to this lie, as opposed to the casual lies he tosses off on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Starmer isn’t going to reopen the Brexit debate. As a nation we are incapable of talking sensibly about the EU, meaning the UK isn’t close to joining the EU or even thinking about it for a generation or two, and the EU isn’t going to accept the UK even if we were thinking about it.

What we can, and will do, is edge ever closer over time and end up with NI‘s current situation applying to the whole of the UK. Voting for Starmer will just make the inevitable quicker and less painful.
 
Postman Pep said:
Her statement is worth sharing. Imagine the noise if this kind of shit went on when the jam man was in charge. The silence speaks volumes.

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As a black woman…..

Yawn, she is as thick as fucking mince, a serial offender and a natural political enemy of the leader so no surprise he is fucking her off.

It’s called politics Diane, something the left and momentum are also good at playing.
 
blueinsa said:
As a black woman…..

Yawn, she is as thick as fucking mince, a serial offender and a natural political enemy of the leader so no surprise he is fucking her off.

It’s called politics Diane, something the left and momentum are also good at playing.
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Again no thoughts on the local mayor and his noncey mate.

On the contrary the left have proved to be utterly shit at playing the same game. Not sure what the outcome would have been if they had been as ruthless but at least the fantasy within your head of what momentum are would bear some reality:)
 
BobKowalski said:
Starmer isn’t going to reopen the Brexit debate. As a nation we are incapable of talking sensibly about the EU, meaning the UK isn’t close to joining the EU or even thinking about it for a generation or two, and the EU isn’t going to accept the UK even if we were thinking about it.

What we can, and will do, is edge ever closer over time and end up with NI‘s current situation applying to the whole of the UK. Voting for Starmer will just make the inevitable quicker and less painful.
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It’s technically impossible for NI’s set-up to apply to the rest of the UK.

If rest of the UK were to join the single market and EU customs union - as currently applies in NI - then large parts of the current NI set-up would be redundant and the structure would change as a result.

What you’re effectively advocating is the UK rejoining the single market and customs union. There’s effectively no NI option for the rest of the UK.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think where Starmer will eventually position us will be much truer to the vote in 2016, close as it was, and will hopefully have more regard and pay more respect to the 48% that voted to remain than the current abortion that we all have to endure.

It’s an absolute fucking disgrace that a vote that close has been allowed to translate into such a hard Brexit.

We should have left the EU, remained in the customs union etc.., and become, as you say, a rule taker.

Thst would have fairly and justly respected the will of the people. All this binary ‘winner takes all’ bullshit is divisive and wholly self-destructive.
Click to expand...

The only problem with this is if the vote was the other way round not many if any remainers would be actively championing leaving the EU a little bit to placate to 48%.

In fact I'm confident the arguments would be the same but a lot of the posters would amazingly have changed their moral compass in the complete opposite direction.
 
hilts said:
The only problem with this is if the vote was the other way round not many if any remainers would be actively championing leaving the EU a little bit to placate to 48%.

In fact I'm confident the arguments would be the same but a lot of the posters would amazingly have changed their moral compass in the complete opposite direction.
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We were already in a position where weren’t all in, with the various opt outs we had. It would have been perfectly feasible to guarantee retaining sterling, opting out of a EU army and actually using the rules available to us to limit free movement, so it could easily have been sold to the more sensible eurosceptics that we’re opting out of ever closer integration whilst retaining the main parts we liked. Instead we’ve tossed it all away and thrown out the baby with the bath water.

Hopefully Starmer will get us back to a position where we can benefit from being aligned with the EU without being a member.
 
hilts said:
The only problem with this is if the vote was the other way round not many if any remainers would be actively championing leaving the EU a little bit to placate to 48%.

In fact I'm confident the arguments would be the same but a lot of the posters would amazingly have changed their moral compass in the complete opposite direction.
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We already were in that position in reality with all the opt outs and keeping the pound etc..

I’d take your point if the vote had been the other way round and we’d gone full EU afterwards, but that was never going to happen or be possible.
 
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