Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2014
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- 21,712
There is no going back to the EU but there comes a time when the gaslighting has to stop if we are to move forward.
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
Grassland Blue
Well-Known Member
Liberals wHard to say at the moment, as none of us can be sure how by-election votes will translate into general election votes, so while people will enjoy putting the boot into the Conservatives at the moment, they might not be quite so willing in two year’s time. I agree that the SNP‘s position will be only strengthened, but it would take a monumental shift to the Liberal Democrats in the shires for there to be enough Labour and Liberal Democrat seats to form a government.
ill form a coalition whichever way the wind blows...
Grassland Blue
Well-Known Member
The one thing Bojo has in his favour is that he isn't timid.That's it in a nutshell. They seem to believe that serious reform isn't required just better management. This position on brexit is just a continuation of that.
Vote Labour for marginally less shit in your rivers.
Never been convinced that this timid strategy would be enough. With what people are facing right now and what's to come I'm now almost certain it isn't.
Lying, cheating, devious, dodgy morality etc, yes - but timidity no!
meltonblue
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- 14 May 2013
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The Tories are tearing themselves apart. All they've got left is waffling on about vaccines and getting Brexit done, and more and more people are seeing that for what it is - a distraction from the real issues facing us today. By ruling out two of the ways out of this mess, Starmer is setting himself up to fail spectacularly when he can't come up with any real alternatives.
I agree, but then I fully expect him to roll back on it a some point in the future anyway.
Gabriel
Well-Known Member
Got their fingers burnt last time so I think we can rule out one bedfellow.Liberals w
ill form a coalition whichever way the wind blows...
The perfect fumble
Well-Known Member
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- 3 Jun 2012
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The problem is that we have a country that has been successfully gaslit by government and media into believing the lie that is Brexit. Its like Trump and the inssurections trials in a way that Starmer has to become PM and then walk us through the lies and nonsense for the penny to drop. For some people this will be impossible you will have the same gammons banging on about the Lisbon treaty vaccine roll out and any shit because they can't admit that they were wrong.
I think this is a fair analysis.....
I think their fish are happier without us. Their exporters certainly are.because it's a win/win, EU is stronger with us in it.
So why take an unobvious one?It's the often discussed debate about gaining power or standing by your own principles. A decision most voters will also have to make. The relationship with the EU is a huge headache for Labour.
I don't think there is an obvious stance they can take tbh.
He just climbed off the fence, and it's proving divisive.I agree, normally starmers fence sitting is frustrating but on this issue he's probably right to do so as it's so toxic and divisive.
Even though it's good for their business (taking our business) I'm not sure EU countries want the red tape for trade that we've signed us and them up to by leaving.The solution is already staring us in the face, but the Single Market requires freedom of movement, regulatory alignment and ECJ jurisdiction. What Brexit promised was all the advantages and none of the bits we didn’t like. This was never going to happen and it’s never going to happen, but we can’t except that and so we will keep going around in circles all the while thinking that if we repackage our proposals that ‘this time we will get what we want’.
The other factor is that we assume if a Labour Govt turns up all ready to accept the bits we don’t like that the EU will just wave us in with happy smiles. They won’t. The EU has no real issues with the current deal, so what can the UK offer that makes it worth their while, bearing in mind the next Govt will just as likely renege on any new deal? To negotiate any change the UK has to offer incentives, so what has the UK got to offer?
I think all I’m saying is we keep having internal discussions about what we want or need or can accept and never once seem to ask what 27 other countries are going to want or accept. I’m not even sure it occurs to us to ask.
SM requires freedom of movement (much harder for the Brexiteers to accept, even if all that's happened is fewer immigrants from the EU and more from Asia). CU doesn't have FoM but helps move goods (and solves NI?). Why rule it out?