When a mildly Socialist Labour party was stabbed in the back by the likes of Ian Austin and Chuka Unuma. undermined by the Party HQ workers, smeared by the likes of Hodge that was not a reason Labour lost?, it was because it was mildly Socialist. Now these centrist liberal clowns expect the left of the party to fall in behind them and sacrifice our beliefs.So that will be a no, you won’t accept that a socialist Labour Party has been comprehensively rejected in the past 2 general elections by the British people and will keep hoping the next election will be different and getting upset when nothing changes instead of bridging the gap between the party and voters to try and actually win an election.
Sure, the conservatives will be in power for another decade and the millions of people will suffer, but you’ve stayed true to democratic socialism so it doesn’t matter.
So Democratic Socialism is far left now?That is the two choices I believe exist, because if the last 40 years has taught us anything, it's that the UK electorate will only elect a centre left Labour government, or the Tories.
Even if I wanted a far-left Labour PM, it's not a choice because the electorate won't elect them.
I believe the UK was a miles better place under Blair in terms of health, education, economy, socially, pretty much everything was better than it is now. And better than it was under Harold Wilson.
It's not 2010 and Corbyn isn't around. There is no open alliance until after the election.A formal alliance is a crazy idea.
The talk of the Tories being a party of 40% is misleading as it suggests that there is near 60% waiting to beat them, if only they could commit.
Look at the last few elections. None have had a clear anti-Tory majority.
2010 - The LDs went with the Tories.
2015 - The LDs went into the election saying they would continue the coalition. In the end they weren't needed, and the Tory+UKIP+Unionists was over 50% of the vote.
2017 - The LDs specifically rules out supporting Corbyn, but refused to rule out supporting a Tory leader.
2019 - Possibly the only time that the obvious candidates for an alliance were anti-Tory, and still you're looking at around 48% for the Tories+Brexit+Unionists, which, with FPTP was still likely close enough to push them over even with a Lib/Lab pact. We also had talk before the election of EuroTories helping form a govt of national unity, but it was made clear that the LDs and SNP wouldn't do it with Corbyn in charge, so clearly they weren't all going to cosy up after an election.
So, even with the current situation, there hasn't been an obvious and easy anti-Tory alliance that we could have put together. BUT it's worse than that, as an alliance would only cut the votes for the parties involved.
Why would a Tory leaning LD vote for them in a formal alliance that brings a Labour led govt closer? We saw in 2015 that well over a million 2010 LD voters, went to the Tories.
Bizarre as it may seem to us, between 2017 and 2019 1.5million voters defected from Labour direct to the Tories. There are plenty of Labour voters who would rather vote Tory than have the SNP or Greens in positions of power.
It's a really lovely idea to think that the Tories are hated by most of the population, but sadly it's not true, and a formal alliance makes a Tory majority more likely.
What's happening now, with Labour and the Lib Dems having a soft alliance, and Starmer avoiding alienating LD voters is the best way to win an election.
I think we agree then - I was replying to the suggesting that "An alliance would be needed pre and post election". I realise things have changed with Starmer and Davey in charge of Labour and the LDs, but it's still five elections in a row where the LDs weren't interested in supporting a Labour minority, and even with their support the combined vote struggles to go much over 50%.It's not 2010 and Corbyn isn't around. There is no open alliance until after the election.
You think the Lib dems and greens don't side with Labour and form a coalition if they get PR out of it and kick out the Tories as a bonus.
You need to think on that one again.
I am afraid there are many on the left who dominate the politics sub forum cannot accept reality.So that will be a no, you won’t accept that a socialist Labour Party has been comprehensively rejected in the past 2 general elections by the British people and will keep hoping the next election will be different and getting upset when nothing changes instead of bridging the gap between the party and voters to try and actually win an election.
Sure, the conservatives will be in power for another decade and the millions of people will suffer, but you’ve stayed true to democratic socialism so it doesn’t matter.
I am afraid there are many on the left who dominate the politics sub forum cannot accept reality.
They think the answer to getting comprehensively beaten at the last election is to press ahead with a wish list of .. left wing policies that would cost a fortune to implement.
This scares off the moderates in the Electorate as they know in reality the policies have to be paid for by borrowing or by the poor sods who are on PAYE.
Everyone has a conscience and would say yes they would like to live in a fairer Society providing someone else is paying for it.
The reality always unfolds on election night.You were making a reasonable point about the idealism of people like @Rascal until you started quoting thatcherite bollocks.
Seems there isn't just one type of extremist detached from reality in these threads.
The reality is
The reality always unfolds on election night.
Are you counting yourself in amongst the moderates in the electorate?I am afraid there are many on the left who dominate the politics sub forum cannot accept reality.
They think the answer to getting comprehensively beaten at the last election is to press ahead with a wish list of .. left wing policies that would cost a fortune to implement.
This scares off the moderates in the Electorate as they know in reality the policies have to be paid for by borrowing or by the poor sods who are on PAYE.
Everyone has a conscience and would say yes they would like to live in a fairer Society providing someone else is paying for it.
Most certainly. They are all a waste of time, all of them look after themselves.Are you counting yourself in amongst the moderates in the electorate?