Keir Starmer

urban genie said:
But most polls and surveys say people are in favour of renationalisation of railways and water.
Universal credit has been a comete fuck up and the NHS and education is becoming more private under each tory parliament.

Focus on the socialist policies that people are in favour of and restoring communites.

Post 2008 returning to neo-liberal/third way economics of new labour would be a bad idea, the world has moved on.

One commitment should be extended devolution, parliament is antiquated and should be replaced, we need an English parliament to run alongside scotland, NI and wales is and then a council of representatives of each country with a revolving prime minister with this council representing the UK.


As for the leadership, gibbering bitter old cunts like roy hattersley commenting is no help to anyone.
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The ideas on renationalisation were popular, I agree, but the money it would theoretically save the taxpayer is small and those ideas need to be couched in a wider ideal of economic responsibility. Binning off 'austerity' to that extent (i.e. running a huge overspend on ordinary budgets) is madness and so much of the manifesto spending on free broadband, free prescriptions, free dental care, free tuition fees, WASPE payments came across as non-credible, non-productive giveaways that would have plunged the country into an enormous deficit again.

There's plenty of bad things in this country and I loathe the way state spending was slashed under Osborne in favour of tax cuts for the wealthiest but all things told, we're still one of the richest countries in the world and I don't think people want to risk that with radicalist, expensive ideas - especially bound up with a West-hating ideology. I think there are problems but I think people would prefer solutions that are affordable and credible, put forward by a party that seems to care about the country.
 
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Len Rum said:
It's come to this has it mate.
It's been a long way down for you.
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At least I had somewhere to fall from and wasn’t in the gutter to begin with.

You know this to be true. Just look at the map of constituencies now.
 
hilts said:
Won’t happen I’ve mentioned him a few times and I know you have been banging the drum for ages. It’s the right choice but

He is too bright
He doesn’t have a vagina
He doesn’t look like the woman at the meat counter at Middleton Asda
He’s not wearing a flat cap
He’s not shouty enough so simple Northern folk will see this as uncaring
He doesn’t say misogyny and social justice every other word
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Middleton hasn't got an Asda but apart from that everything else is where he falls down as the next LP leader
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
Unbelievably, Clive Lewis is putting himself forward and he appears to be a bigger nutter than Corbyn. He wants the membership to make all policy decisions for starters. See what you think by reading his pitch in the Guardian..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/19/im-standing-labour-leader-clive-lewis
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Wants rid of fptp and says the majority of voters are to the left of the Tories. He must have been reading my posts the cheeky sod:-) I said they should go for him but don’t think they will. He would probably get my vote.
 
hilts said:
Wants rid of fptp and says the majority of voters are to the left of the Tories.
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I think he'd be better off focusing on the fact that the majority of voters are to the right of where he is, rather than worrying about the other side, over which he has no control or influence.
 
Mike D said:
I think you are missing the point Labour lost on brexiit and Corbun. Far too many people like yourself want to throw the baby out of the bath water and go back to blairism. It's never going to work start with the basics strong leadership and a strategy
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Staggeringly ironic.

What's never going to work is sticking with 1970's politics in 2020 and beyond. Did you not notice the shipyards closing, the mines closing, the steelworks closing? Did you not notice the hightech startups, the Japanese style of management-worker collaborative no-strike agreements? The booming FS and services sectors?

But carry on by all means and we'll be in office forever.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think he'd be better off focusing on the fact that the majority of voters are to the right of where he is, rather than worrying about the other side, over which he has no control or influence.
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In fairness the fact most voters are to the left of the Tories is pretty important in determining what one should do. But will Labour pick him and will he use that obvious fact to their advantage? Probably not.
 
hilts said:
In fairness the fact most voters are to the left of the Tories is pretty important in determining what one should do. But will Labour pick him and will he use that obvious fact to their advantage? Probably not.
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I think the political spectrum looks a bit like this:

Presentation1.jpg


Easier to draw it than talk about it. Blair was closer to the mood of the public than any leader in the past 20+ years and had majorities which prove it. Nandy and Starmer - with their own policies - would give Johnson a good run. Phillips as well possibly. RLB and Rayner are fucked. I meant to put Lewis on the chart as well but forgot. I'd put him next to RLB. Fucked.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think the political spectrum looks a bit like this:

Presentation1.jpg


Easier to draw it than talk about it. Blair was closer to the mood of the public than any leader in the past 20+ years and had majorities which prove it. Nandy and Starmer - with their own policies - would give Johnson a good run. Phillips as well possibly. RLB and Rayner are fucked. I meant to put Lewis on the chart as well but forgot. I'd put him next to RLB. Fucked.
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Is there room to the right of Redwood and Francois for Mogg and yourself?
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think the political spectrum looks a bit like this:

Presentation1.jpg


Easier to draw it than talk about it. Blair was closer to the mood of the public than any leader in the past 20+ years and had majorities which prove it. Nandy and Starmer - with their own policies - would give Johnson a good run. Phillips as well possibly. RLB and Rayner are fucked. I meant to put Lewis on the chart as well but forgot. I'd put him next to RLB. Fucked.
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I don’t agree completely with those lines especially as you have but the public one in one place but it’s not worth going into too much detail over but the line that matters is the one slightly left of the Tories. Once you eliminate brexit and those northern towns start voting the way they have always have anything from the Tories and further right is probably at most 30 % of the electorate. That leaves a huge opportunity for lefter leaning parties. A broad church is often quoted but Corbyn and his cult decided on a chapel in Waco.

If Labour take a more pragmatic approach and form consensus initially with other parties then it’s possible to get rid of FPTP. But they would have to put their own desire on total control to one side probably permanently. If they can live with being the biggest voice in a left wing alliance then it could work.
 
Ban-jani said:
Corbyn is the reason Johnson has a huge majority and the Tories will likely be in power until 2029.

Corbyn is be reason 50% of British Jews were considering fleeing the country if Labour won power.

Corbyn is the reason 86% of them said they feel he’s antisemtic.

Corbyn is the reason that the hard left have bullied more centrist people away from the party.

Corbyn is the reason Jewish MPs got death threats and he’s the reason Luciana Berger was ran out of the party for merely being critical of its approach to antisemitism. Not once did he reach out to her, when she was being threatened and whilst she was pregnant.

Corbyn is the reason Labour are the first party being formally investigated by the EHRC, other than the BNP, in Britain.

Corbyn is the reason 30 whistleblowers that worked within the disputes team in the Labour Party have come forward.

Corbyn is the reason the Team Leader of the complaints team attempted to commit suicide whilst he was in the role.

Corbyn said Zionists (jews) didn’t understand English humour. Corbyn questioned why an antisemtic mural was taken down. Corbyn said Israel having a right to exist was “a bias in Britain”. Corbyn put Jennie Formby in the role of General Secretary, as one of his close allies, who then interfered on the side of antisemites to get them off the hook whilst they were being investigated by the complaints committee.

You can’t swear at me all you wish but it doesn’t take anything away from what’s happened.
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And you can back all of this up line by line then?

We all know that Corbyn isn's anti semitic himself personally and what was done a hatchet job. He is a nice man but a weak leader who was trashed by the right wing media.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Your delusional if you think the British public swallowed all those fanciful free money policies. They are not stupid, those at the top of the labour party had a reality check.
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A number of the policies were brilliant went down well the problem is that that there were to many that's not delusional that's fact. What was needed was a clear simple message like kick Johnson's arse but it wasn't to be and now we will all pay for it.
 
Fame Monster said:
There's not much in the way of a baby in that bath. Maybe a bit of sperm but the bath needs to be drained and thoroughly cleaned out.

Corbyn and Brexit were definitely factors but so was the manifesto bar a few policies.

People don't want radicalism or huge, potentially bankrupting increases in non-productive spending: they want credible, affordable policies that will improve their lives.
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Less is more and had the focus been on a few policies a promise to honour the referendum result as in 2017 along with a different leader we wouldn't be looking at the same result.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Staggeringly ironic.

What's never going to work is sticking with 1970's politics in 2020 and beyond. Did you not notice the shipyards closing, the mines closing, the steelworks closing? Did you not notice the hightech startups, the Japanese style of management-worker collaborative no-strike agreements? The booming FS and services sectors?

But carry on by all means and we'll be in office forever.
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Of course Chippy and the ballooning of unsecure zero hour contracts that's what we all wanted. While we are here can you just let the 2 guys in Burnley on ZHC sharing a one bedroom bedsit know, how after voting tory Boris is going to help them out?
 
Mike D said:
Of course Chippy and the ballooning of unsecure zero hour contracts that's what we all wanted. While we are here can you just let the 2 guys in Burnley on ZHC sharing a one bedroom bedsit know, how after voting tory Boris is going to help them out?
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Ask them, they'll give you the same answer as Corbyn got.
It's too late telling everyone that everything is shit, because it clearly isn't, and these 'Poor' voted for Johnson because
they are not rooted in bankrupt socialist policies, most have jobs, and aspiration, and didn't believe the fairy tales.
 
Mike D said:
A number of the policies were brilliant went down well
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Lol! They went down that well, Labour was handed its worst result since 1935.
None were 'Brilliant' none at all, if they were, many more would have forsaken Brexit and voted for them.
Unless Labour ditch the socialist shit they're gone forever, the world knows that philosophy is poison.
 
Mike D said:
A number of the policies were brilliant went down well the problem is that that there were to many that's not delusional that's fact. What was needed was a clear simple message like kick Johnson's arse but it wasn't to be and now we will all pay for it.
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Have to agree, too many free money policies, i meant delusional in so far as there were far too many. I would have been happier with two or three realistic ones that struck a cord, abolish tuition fees, abandon car parking charges at hospitals in England and such like.
 
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