Keir Starmer

[Kazzydeyna]

You don’t know me mate, you’ve absolutely no idea if I’m selfish or not.

I just disagree with your politics, which obviously means I’m ‘abhorrent’.

You ever wonder why you got hammered by the working class in December?

We don’t like what you’ve got to offer, sorry mate, put your donkey jacket away.

Upon reflection, you're correct. I don't know you and I shouldn't have called you abhorrent or selfish.

I apologise.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And there you have it. Anti-intellectualism. You know what it gets you? 43,000 dead that’s what it gets you. Is that a pricing worth paying to assuage your festering resentment and sense of inadequacy?

I've got festering resentment!!?
Oh, the fucking ironing, just gotta love this place.

 

[Ban-jani]

Upon reflection, you're correct. I don't know you and I shouldn't have called you abhorrent or selfish.

I apologise.

Fair enough, I respect that.

Apology accepted.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Tell you what, it's a proper slanging match is this, makes a change
from all the pussyfooting around, it's a great laugh.
I'm wondering who's going to be the first poor **** to starve to death,
for voting for the Tories.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Quite a lot have died as an unintended consequence of voting for them though.

Very easy to say, a little more difficult to prove.

 

[twosips]

Can someone explain to me, without any sarcastic comments as this is a sincere question, why Israel comes up so frequently in relation to the labour party? Why does it cloud every discussion and why is Israel and Palestine's affairs such a key talking point?

Sorry if this is genuine naivety on my behalf. It often feels like lots of labour voters talk about that more than they do about current affairs that affect those in the UK. I don't quite understand why.

Edit - I'm not saying those world issues aren't important, just unsure as to why they're seemingly so high on the agenda given everything

 

[mexico1970]

On Friday morning Sir Keir spoke, via Zoom, to more than 20 MPs in the Socialist Campaign Group, who have expressed concern about Mrs Long-Bailey's sacking. The group's membership includes former leader Jeremy Corbyn, and other prominent left-wingers such as Diane Abbott and Richard Burgon.



They want RLB reinstated, I doubt they will get their request.

 

[Scottyboi]

Can someone explain to me, without any sarcastic comments as this is a sincere question, why Israel comes up so frequently in relation to the labour party? Why does it cloud every discussion and why is Israel and Palestine's affairs such a key talking point?

Sorry if this is genuine naivety on my behalf. It often feels like lots of labour voters talk about that more than they do about current affairs that affect those in the UK. I don't quite understand why.

Edit - I'm not saying those world issues aren't important, just unsure as to why they're seemingly so high on the agenda given everything

Because they are idiots that hold the Labour party back, vast majority of the country aren't interested in what happens with Israel and Palestine but these numptys cannot help themselves.

If Israel wasn't a Jewish country and was say ruled by Muslims I wonder how much they would care. They always seem to hate the UK just as much as they hate Israel too.

 

[Metal Biker]

Can someone explain to me, without any sarcastic comments as this is a sincere question, why Israel comes up so frequently in relation to the labour party? Why does it cloud every discussion and why is Israel and Palestine's affairs such a key talking point?

Sorry if this is genuine naivety on my behalf. It often feels like lots of labour voters talk about that more than they do about current affairs that affect those in the UK. I don't quite understand why.

The short (and exceptionally tongue-in-cheek) version? Far-left Communists are anti-capitalist, they see Jews around the world as supporting Capitalism, cite conspiracy theories that they "own all the banks and money", and a number of people possessing these views and conpiracies have infiltrated the party and under Corbyn's Labour, they became more emboldened in voicing them online.



It turns out that a number of Labour Party members/advocates still believe in old, outdated and antisemitic conspiracy tropes about "the Jews running the world" or "the Jews are responsible for every social tragedy" or "the Jews are the cause of all wars". Yes, these are actual conspiracies that go back hundreds of years, so it's not a recent thing, namely the one I underlined. "The Jews are secretly orchestrating a race war to stay rich!" You know, that sort of ignorance.

Peake's idiotic attempt to connect George Floyd's murder to 'Israel Secret Service' tactics, indicating that Israel was in some way responsible and therefore is a reprehensible community, is a prime example of this tone deaf attitude that has surfaced about "Jews being responsible for every national social tragedy in history". RLB supporting the article, and thus the comments and then failing to apologise after being called out on it, is an example of an attitude that has plagued recent Labour MP's.

There's a long standing narrative within the more extremist, far-left, anti-capitalist elements that Jewish banks, businesses and employers are continuing supporting capitalist regimes across the world, so they are considered by some as "the enemy within". In the last few years this element has become more vocal and a lot of sources keep pointing back to Labour members, be they fringe or connected to the party itself. The defence is always "we're not critical of Jews, we're critical of Israeli govt!" as a cop out, but the fact is that Peake mentioning the 'Israeli Secret Services' was not a critique of the Israeli govt. It was an example of a belief in an anti-semitic conspiracy theory that Israel has helped train the US in a tactic solely designed to incite a racial divide in the US.

 

[Ban-jani]

Can someone explain to me, without any sarcastic comments as this is a sincere question, why Israel comes up so frequently in relation to the labour party? Why does it cloud every discussion and why is Israel and Palestine's affairs such a key talking point?

Sorry if this is genuine naivety on my behalf. It often feels like lots of labour voters talk about that more than they do about current affairs that affect those in the UK. I don't quite understand why.

Edit - I'm not saying those world issues aren't important, just unsure as to why they're seemingly so high on the agenda given everything

It’s a very difficult question to answer, as it’s a mystery to many others as to why they’ve focused so much effort into this one conflict/issue.

I think generally speaking with antisemitism, some on the far left, as happens with the far right, have issues with “elites”, specifically in the financial industry. They overstep rationality into conspiracies that centre around a global elite of people pushing down on the rest of us, dictating the banks and it manifests in both extremes.

This always ends up the fault of the Jews, as soon as you go down this road.

The likes of Chomsky on the left are far more careful and considered in their attitudes to inequality and elites. Chomsky is a very bright man and whilst I’m not aligned to his political stance, he never goes down the conspiracy route.

Now, whether these conspiracies have pushed them towards an obsession with the conflict in the Holy Land, I don’t know, the dislike of Jews may already be there and they use that to attack the Jewish State.

I do sometimes wonder why they never wave the flag of Yemen or Tibet, why they don’t complain about the Chinese putting Muslims in concentration camps or the atrocities that happen all the time in Africa, by certain groups.

The same people that attack Mossad agents defended Putin’s war crime in Salisbury and said it wasn’t Russia.

None of this is an apology for Israeli government policy, the Israeli government has behaved appallingly, but so have Hamas and to pick a side, so staunchly, is actually disgraceful.

A two state solution is the way to go and you do not do that by rejecting everything Israeli and blaming British Jews for the actions of a corrupt Prime Minister.

So a short answer to your question is, they’re racists.

 

[Ban-jani]

The short (and exceptionally tongue-in-cheek) version? Far-left Communists are anti-capitalist, they see Jews around the world as supporting Capitalism, cite conspiracy theories that they "own all the banks and money", and a number of people possessing these views and conpiracies have infiltrated the party and under Corbyn's Labour, they became more emboldened in voicing them online.



It turns out that a number of Labour Party members/advocates still believe in old, outdated and antisemitic conspiracy tropes about "the Jews running the world" or "the Jews are responsible for every social tragedy" or "the Jews are the cause of all wars". Yes, these are actual conspiracies that go back hundreds of years, so it's not a recent thing, namely the one I underlined. "The Jews are secretly orchestrating a race war to stay rich!" You know, that sort of ignorance.

Peake's idiotic attempt to connect George Floyd's murder to 'Israel Secret Service' tactics, indicating that Israel was in some way responsible and therefore is a reprehensible community, is a prime example of this tone deaf attitude that has surfaced about "Jews being responsible for every national social tragedy in history". RLB supporting the article, and thus the comments and then failing to apologise after being called out on it, is an example of an attitude that has plagued recent Labour MP's.

There's a long standing narrative within the more extremist, far-left, anti-capitalist elements that Jewish banks, businesses and employers are continuing supporting capitalist regimes across the world, so they are considered by some as "the enemy within". In the last few years this element has become more vocal and a lot of sources keep pointing back to Labour members, be they fringe or connected to the party itself. The defence is always "we're not critical of Jews, we're critical of Israeli govt!" as a cop out, but the fact is that Peake mentioning the 'Israeli Secret Services' was not a critique of the Israeli govt. It was an example of a belief in a conspiracy theory that Israel has helped train the US in a tactic solely designed to incite a racial divide in the US.

Bang on.

Look at the mural Corbyn openly supported.

It’s straight out of the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda.

 

[twosips]

Cheers all, really useful. Appreciated. I guess I'm a little baffled because I've literally voted labour all my life, as have most of my friends and family, and I don't think I've had one sincere, long conversation with any of them about Israel/Palestine. It's obviously been vaguely topical at times, so I know roughly about it, but any convo around that has genuinely moved on within a minute or two. It's never felt like a subject that's anywhere near the top of the agenda for your average labour voter, if that makes sense? I can't say I hold any notable opinion about anyone Jewish at all, cos why would I? Never crossed my mind to. It just doesn't seem to affect my life (well, knowingly at least) at all - not that I don't care, but you know what I mean. Hence my confusion as to why its such a big deal for many. Those points make sense though, so thank you.

 

[Metal Biker]

Bang on.

Look at the mural Corbyn openly supported.

It’s straight out of the Joseph Goebbels school of propaganda.

Ah yes, the mural depiciting "Illuminati Jews all with stereotypical big noses, backdropped against oil cooling towers spewing toxic clouds, sitting around the Monopoly board, resting on the heaving backs of oppressed Black, Brown and White people, because all they love is money".

Far-right/far-left; both anti-semitic, but for entirely different reasons.

 

[Ban-jani]

Cheers all, really useful. Appreciated. I guess I'm a little baffled because I've literally voted labour all my life, as have most of my friends and family, and I don't think I've had one sincere, long conversation with any of them about Israel/Palestine. It's obviously been vaguely topical at times, so I know roughly about it, but any convo around that has genuinely moved on within a minute or two. It's never felt like a subject that's anywhere near the top of the agenda for your average labour voter, if that makes sense? I can't say I hold any notable opinion about anyone Jewish at all, cos why would I? Never crossed my mind to. It just doesn't seem to affect my life (well, knowingly at least) at all. Hence my confusion as to why its such a big deal for many. Those points make sense though, so thank you.

It’s part of the problem as to why they got battered in December.

The average working class northern bloke just wants to get on and do alright. A lot are patriotic and won’t ever support fringe groups.

Labour electing Corbyn actually allowed some traditional and decent socialists back in but unfortunately many aren’t like that and are oddballs, obsessed with identity politics and Israel.

I’m from a traditional Labour seat and the Tories won in December. I know for a fact pro nouns and the Palestine conflict aren’t on the lips of people but wanting Brexit was.

 

[Ban-jani]

Ah yes, the mural depiciting "Illuminati Jews all with stereotypical big noses, backdropped against oil cooling towers spewing toxic clouds, sitting around the Monopoly board, resting on the heaving backs of oppressed Black, Brown and White people, because all they love is money".

Far-right/far-left; both anti-semitic, but for entirely different reasons.

I would argue for very similar reasons actually mate, the Nazis thought the Jews were controlling the banks too.

PB will be able to give a very good insight but I don’t want to go around tagging him every time antisemitism comes up on the board.

 

[Metal Biker]

Cheers all, really useful. Appreciated. I guess I'm a little baffled because I've literally voted labour all my life, as have most of my friends and family, and I don't think I've had one sincere, long conversation with any of them about Israel/Palestine. It's obviously been vaguely topical at times, so I know roughly about it, but any convo around that has genuinely moved on within a minute or two. It's never felt like a subject that's anywhere near the top of the agenda for your average labour voter, if that makes sense? I can't say I hold any notable opinion about anyone Jewish at all, cos why would I? Never crossed my mind to. It just doesn't seem to affect my life (well, knowingly at least) at all. Hence my confusion as to why its such a big deal for many. Those points make sense though, so thank you.

Some in Labour seem to think you do care deeply about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, to the point it overshadows all other political concerns. Naturally, nobody is supportive of the violence or the conduct of the Israeli govt. but i'd hazard a guess you're not in the camp to suggest that Israel has "no right to exist", which some recent Labour advocates in recent years have stated on twitter (and been subsequently banned) It became so bad that even stating that Israel has a right to exist was seen as an unpopular opinion.

What this more extreme far-left element group that infiltrated Labour brought to the discussion was the idea that "people having more money than they need is a bad thing. And typically, which communities tend to have the most money? Who has positions of authority in banking and business? Who is therefore keeping people oppressed worldwide?"

 

[Metal Biker]

I would argue for very similar reasons actually mate, the Nazis thought the Jews were controlling the banks too.

PB will be able to give a very good insight but I don’t want to go around tagging him every time antisemitism comes up on the board.

Is my semi-Jewish heritage not good enough for ya? Huh!? ;)

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Cheers all, really useful. Appreciated. I guess I'm a little baffled because I've literally voted labour all my life, as have most of my friends and family, and I don't think I've had one sincere, long conversation with any of them about Israel/Palestine. It's obviously been vaguely topical at times, so I know roughly about it, but any convo around that has genuinely moved on within a minute or two. It's never felt like a subject that's anywhere near the top of the agenda for your average labour voter, if that makes sense? I can't say I hold any notable opinion about anyone Jewish at all, cos why would I? Never crossed my mind to. It just doesn't seem to affect my life (well, knowingly at least) at all. Hence my confusion as to why its such a big deal for many. Those points make sense though, so thank you.

Sadly the above is a fair reflection. The only thing I would add is that this is fringe wacky stuff and originates in soviet propaganda through the cold war years. Where Hitler stopped the Russians picked up the baton and mixed in the repression of socialism and secret networks undermining the will of the people. A toxic mix that lives on in far left web chat rooms and conspiracy theory.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/soviet-anti-semitic-cartoons

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Cheers all, really useful. Appreciated. I guess I'm a little baffled because I've literally voted labour all my life, as have most of my friends and family, and I don't think I've had one sincere, long conversation with any of them about Israel/Palestine. It's obviously been vaguely topical at times, so I know roughly about it, but any convo around that has genuinely moved on within a minute or two. It's never felt like a subject that's anywhere near the top of the agenda for your average labour voter, if that makes sense? I can't say I hold any notable opinion about anyone Jewish at all, cos why would I? Never crossed my mind to. It just doesn't seem to affect my life (well, knowingly at least) at all - not that I don't care, but you know what I mean. Hence my confusion as to why its such a big deal for many. Those points make sense though, so thank you.

You might also wait for a politically-left view on what happened. It might match in part, but may offer different ideology.

 

[Chris in London]

See bob you work on a different level to me and most people who may vote labour but don’t (or the conned)
We’re only arsed about people down at our level and whether things are fair and how things can be improved in our lives
We leave it to people like you to deal with the high level high finance issues dogging the nation.
We just want food drink family and football
People like you are too busy blaming Tory’s and don’t actually try to persuade people why to vote labour.
We’re all thick and easily conned.....
Maybe your views just don’t relate to us

What was your opinion on the Blair government?