Keir Starmer

[blueinsa]

If you think Starmer is going to suffer from opposing the Johnson government then you are delusional.

He wont suffer but right now, re brexit i dont see him gaining anything either.

Ask Jeremy what sitting on a fence or opposing it did for him?

 

[meltonblue]

He’ll suffer as they’re setting the context of the debate. This is a prime example, no opposition leader is ever going to back a bill when it deliberately puts so much onto secondary legislation that the government can push through without parliamentary scrutiny and increases the power of the Home Secretary and reduces the power of parliament.

That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.

 

[Tb1981]

The polls you keep referencing have never been reflected at the ballot box.
On Four occasions.
Your opinion on how Brexit unfolds is simply that, your opinion, it's not the
opinion of those who've just rejected Labour wholesale, and your assumption
that these people, that you simply must get onside, will suddenly swerve to the party that
keeps on rejecting their wishes is wishful thinking at best.

Get ready because any redundancies....brexits fault
Pandemic related recession...brexit
Pot holes in road....brexit
Cat next door dies ... brexit

The next wave of negativity will follow, then another, then A bit more

These remainers will never stop, we have not done what we should have and we must be punished

 

[joe123]

He’ll suffer as they’re setting the context of the debate. This is a prime example, no opposition leader is ever going to back a bill when it deliberately puts so much onto secondary legislation that the government can push through without parliamentary scrutiny and increases the power of the Home Secretary and reduces the power of parliament.

That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.

Yeah, I agree. Will definitely suffer in the short-term as Patel got her 'denying the will of the people' line in. Fair play to her. But I don't think it's going to do him any harm in the long-term to oppose different aspects of Brexit legislation if it turns out to be a disaster.

If the points-based system doesn't get the numbers down to the long held Tory target of 'tens of thousands', it could be a sore point for them that Labour will have been against. If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.

 

[Vic]

The polls you keep referencing have never been reflected at the ballot box.
On Four occasions.

For the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.

 

[meltonblue]

Yeah, I agree. Will definitely suffer in the short-term as Patel got her 'denying the will of the people' line in. Fair play to her. But I don't think it's going to do him any harm in the long-term to oppose different aspects of Brexit legislation if it turns out to be a disaster.

If the points-based system doesn't get the numbers down to the long held Tory target of 'tens of thousands', it could be a sore point for them that Labour will have been against. If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.

Yep agree with that. My point was more around the short term narrative though, the government will continue to try and keep the debate at the superficial level hoping that the real changes they’re making go under the radar. It’s working for them too.

 

[Vic]

Get ready because any redundancies....brexits fault
Pandemic related recession...brexit
Pot holes in road....brexit
Cat next door dies ... brexit

The next wave of negativity will follow, then another, then A bit more

These remainers will never stop, we have not done what we should have and we must be punished

Seems fair, after the EU being blamed for everything for 40 years.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.

On the face of it, your point is valid, but this policy is a massive, fundamental,
part of the reason for Brexit. The Brexit that has happened, and cannot be changed,
so it's akin to voting against Liverpool winning the league, and wanting it rescinded.
Yes, the opposition must oppose, but when that opposition is utterly futile,
directed at something, that has happened, been and gone, it's not clever.
If he'd have voted for it, as he's currently slightly ahead, his standing
amongst Labour red wall voters would increase, now, hearing this, it's
'Nah, no ta, still the same old shit.'

 

[Vic]

Does anyone complaining about the vote know what the vote was on? I mean, the actual wording of the amendment they were voting on?

 

[blueinsa]

Seems fair, after the EU being blamed for everything for 40 years.

Makes a change from the Tories I suppose.