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blueinsa
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He wont suffer but right now, re brexit i dont see him gaining anything either.
Ask Jeremy what sitting on a fence or opposing it did for him?
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Keir Starmer
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
He wont suffer but right now, re brexit i dont see him gaining anything either.
Ask Jeremy what sitting on a fence or opposing it did for him?
meltonblue
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- 8,724
He’ll suffer as they’re setting the context of the debate. This is a prime example, no opposition leader is ever going to back a bill when it deliberately puts so much onto secondary legislation that the government can push through without parliamentary scrutiny and increases the power of the Home Secretary and reduces the power of parliament.
That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.
That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.
The polls you keep referencing have never been reflected at the ballot box.
On Four occasions.
Your opinion on how Brexit unfolds is simply that, your opinion, it's not the
opinion of those who've just rejected Labour wholesale, and your assumption
that these people, that you simply must get onside, will suddenly swerve to the party that
keeps on rejecting their wishes is wishful thinking at best.
Get ready because any redundancies....brexits fault
Pandemic related recession...brexit
Pot holes in road....brexit
Cat next door dies ... brexit
The next wave of negativity will follow, then another, then A bit more
These remainers will never stop, we have not done what we should have and we must be punished
He’ll suffer as they’re setting the context of the debate. This is a prime example, no opposition leader is ever going to back a bill when it deliberately puts so much onto secondary legislation that the government can push through without parliamentary scrutiny and increases the power of the Home Secretary and reduces the power of parliament.
That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.
Yeah, I agree. Will definitely suffer in the short-term as Patel got her 'denying the will of the people' line in. Fair play to her. But I don't think it's going to do him any harm in the long-term to oppose different aspects of Brexit legislation if it turns out to be a disaster.
If the points-based system doesn't get the numbers down to the long held Tory target of 'tens of thousands', it could be a sore point for them that Labour will have been against. If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.
For the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.The polls you keep referencing have never been reflected at the ballot box.
On Four occasions.
meltonblue
Well-Known Member
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- 8,724
Yeah, I agree. Will definitely suffer in the short-term as Patel got her 'denying the will of the people' line in. Fair play to her. But I don't think it's going to do him any harm in the long-term to oppose different aspects of Brexit legislation if it turns out to be a disaster.
If the points-based system doesn't get the numbers down to the long held Tory target of 'tens of thousands', it could be a sore point for them that Labour will have been against. If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.
Yep agree with that. My point was more around the short term narrative though, the government will continue to try and keep the debate at the superficial level hoping that the real changes they’re making go under the radar. It’s working for them too.
Seems fair, after the EU being blamed for everything for 40 years.Get ready because any redundancies....brexits fault
Pandemic related recession...brexit
Pot holes in road....brexit
Cat next door dies ... brexit
The next wave of negativity will follow, then another, then A bit more
These remainers will never stop, we have not done what we should have and we must be punished
Ancient Citizen
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- 26 Jul 2009
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- 15,712
On the face of it, your point is valid, but this policy is a massive, fundamental,If it's a success/popular you accept and move on, but seems daft to just vote for something you don't think would do any good.
part of the reason for Brexit. The Brexit that has happened, and cannot be changed,
so it's akin to voting against Liverpool winning the league, and wanting it rescinded.
Yes, the opposition must oppose, but when that opposition is utterly futile,
directed at something, that has happened, been and gone, it's not clever.
If he'd have voted for it, as he's currently slightly ahead, his standing
amongst Labour red wall voters would increase, now, hearing this, it's
'Nah, no ta, still the same old shit.'
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blueinsa
Guest
Seems fair, after the EU being blamed for everything for 40 years.
Makes a change from the Tories I suppose.
My god what crapFor the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.
Even you can’t believe the stuff you write surely?
Does that mean we can retain the title as the 19 teams other than Liverpool got more points!!!
Well just share it like the old charity shield
We are the champions!!!!!
We are the champions!!!!!
Ancient Citizen
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- 15,712
It's about time that record was changed mate, it fell down the chartsFor the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.
like a fucking stone.
'Jo Swinson's latest banging new choon, ''The Libs Will scrap Brexit''
was another that failed to chart, along with, 'Splinters in my arse'
by Jez Corbyn and the fence sitters.
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blueinsa
Guest
My god what crap
Even you can’t believe the stuff you write surely?
Does that mean we can retain the title as the 19 teams other than Liverpool got more points!!!
Well just share it like the old charity shield
We are the champions!!!!!
We are the champions!!!!!
He does.
Its the brexit equivalent of the net spend cup.
For reference vic who got more votes in the referendumFor the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.
Was it leave or remain?
Gareth Barry Conlon
Well-Known Member
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- 15,977
He’ll suffer as they’re setting the context of the debate. This is a prime example, no opposition leader is ever going to back a bill when it deliberately puts so much onto secondary legislation that the government can push through without parliamentary scrutiny and increases the power of the Home Secretary and reduces the power of parliament.
That’s not even considered though, it’s just seen as voting against the end of freedom of movement.
It is milking the political capital out of brexit - ending FOM is what it is all about as its red meat to the tory base and they can jeer at Labour and call them out for being soft on immigration.
Ancient Citizen
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- 15,712
And the tot up the kids, toddlers, and foetuses Blue Ribband.He does.
Its the brexit equivalent of the net spend cup.
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blueinsa
Guest
It is milking the political capital out of brexit - ending FOM is what it is all about as its red meat to the tory base and they can jeer at Labour and call them out for being soft on immigration.
If only it was the Tory base that wanted and voted for it, you might have a point.
It wasn't, you dont.
Churchlawtonblue
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- 16,617
OK thanks for replying.I can’t copy and paste for some reason but it was around dependents and also child refugee dependents
Ancient Citizen
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- 26 Jul 2009
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- 15,712
Good question, and when you check the numbers, it's uncanny, as the winningFor reference vic who got more votes in the referendum
Was it leave or remain?
margin is more or less the same as the number of red wall Labour voters,
switching to Tory.
Fascinating.
On the face of it, your point is valid, but this policy is a massive, fundamental,
part of the reason for Brexit. The Brexit that has happened, and cannot be changed,
so it's akin to voting against Liverpool winning the league, and wanting it rescinded.
Yes, the opposition must oppose, but when that opposition is utterly futile,
directed at something, that has happened, been and gone, it's not clever.
If he'd have voted for it, as he's currently slightly ahead, his standing
amongst Labour red wall voters would increase, now, hearing this, it's
'Nah, no ta, still the same old shit.'
True, but then he's between a rock and a hard place on this in the sense that he'd have got equally damning headlines had he gone the other way and pissed off his metropolitan base with "Starmer votes to end free movement". My guess is playing to that base here, and hoping Patel and co fuck it up.