Keir Starmer

[union city blue]

Yeah agree, but basically he wanted to be leader of a group of people who did not want him to be leader. Having become leader he does nothing to try to bridge that gap. Is it on the MPs to give him a chance, maybe but it all just feels inevitable to me, because of his style. He was never going to even try, in fact I suspect they hoped that the moderate wing would leave in droves - that never happened. What a shit show.

I think you’ve unwittingly stumbled on the crux of the issue with your “basically he wanted to be leader of a group of people who did not want him to be leader.”

The issue is that he had a democratic mandate from hundreds of thousands of Labour Party members for the approach he took. Labour HQ staff had no such mandate. They simply didn’t like his politics and the report is fairly clear that they acted in a factional manner against Corbyn to undermine him and his team, even diverting Party funds during an election to a secret campaign fund to support their favoured MPs. That, for me, is unforgiveable.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I think one reason he put up with starmer and Watson was he was trying to retain some balance - if momentum did totally take over it may have got too close to the days of militant for the electorate to tolerate (imho)

I think Starmer advised him well, it was the other big ticket items he had no control of, which all stemmed from the change of voting that kept him in power.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Whether you agree with his politics or not this is worth a watch and raises some questions about our democracy

 

[bluenova]

I think you’ve unwittingly stumbled on the crux of the issue with your “basically he wanted to be leader of a group of people who did not want him to be leader.”

The issue is that he had a democratic mandate from hundreds of thousands of Labour Party members for the approach he took. Labour HQ staff had no such mandate. They simply didn’t like his politics and the report is fairly clear that they acted in a factional manner against Corbyn to undermine him and his team, even diverting Party funds during an election to a secret campaign fund to support their favoured MPs. That, for me, is unforgiveable.

Their argument is that they were continuing to support a list of candidates that had been agreed, and that the LOTO staff told them to divert funding away from candidates that were anti-Corbyn to a different group who were pro-Corbyn, many of whom were in safe seats. The whole report is full of he said/she said, and doesn't reflect well on anayone. Frankly it's all a huge shit show, and there's a strong argument to expel anyone involved on either side - those that went behind Corbyn's back, and those that leaked the report.

It's ironic that the Peter Mandleson quote about working every day to stop Corbyn is a mantra of some on the left of the party, when we've seen since some of the his biggest fans campaigning every day against the Labour party.

I campaigned in 2017 for Labour, in 2019, in a Jewish area, where I got shouted at in the street, on one occasion when I was out delivering leaflets with my 4 year old son, and I'll be out campaigning at the next election.

When the Tories are ripping themselves apart, it's a shame that so many people who should be supporting Labour (and I'm not directing this at the poster I replied to) are screaming for blood and trying to refight these factional battles.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Starmer has given Labour a genuine chance at winning the next election - for that I’m grateful for him

 

[mat]

Their argument is that they were continuing to support a list of candidates that had been agreed, and that the LOTO staff told them to divert funding away from candidates that were anti-Corbyn to a different group who were pro-Corbyn, many of whom were in safe seats. The whole report is full of he said/she said, and doesn't reflect well on anayone. Frankly it's all a huge shit show, and there's a strong argument to expel anyone involved on either side - those that went behind Corbyn's back, and those that leaked the report.

It's ironic that the Peter Mandleson quote about working every day to stop Corbyn is a mantra of some on the left of the party, when we've seen since some of the his biggest fans campaigning every day against the Labour party.

I campaigned in 2017 for Labour, in 2019, in a Jewish area, where I got shouted at in the street, on one occasion when I was out delivering leaflets with my 4 year old son, and I'll be out campaigning at the next election.

When the Tories are ripping themselves apart, it's a shame that so many people who should be supporting Labour (and I'm not directing this at the poster I replied to) are screaming for blood and trying to refight these factional battles.

To me it's done.

Corbyn was shafted and it's been more than proven. However Starmer has to show he's got a pair and remove the cunts who were slated in the report and start rebuilding faith with the members whom he'd rather suspend/expel for having the audacity of asking questions he doesn't like about the leadership and the direction of the party.

 

[Summerbuzz]

I think you’ve unwittingly stumbled on the crux of the issue with your “basically he wanted to be leader of a group of people who did not want him to be leader.”

The issue is that he had a democratic mandate from hundreds of thousands of Labour Party members for the approach he took. Labour HQ staff had no such mandate. They simply didn’t like his politics and the report is fairly clear that they acted in a factional manner against Corbyn to undermine him and his team, even diverting Party funds during an election to a secret campaign fund to support their favoured MPs. That, for me, is unforgiveable.

But this is exactly what's happening with the Tories. Boris was a membership favourite - Tory MPs then had little truck with him. A bunch resigned, and he got rid of dozens of others before the last election to secure his position. He's still getting rid of them now!

Look what it leads to. Those MPs ALL had democratic mandates - the only mandate with any real legal standing, that of ALL of their constiuents. They were kicked out by the new breed that swept the party.

We are dallying with variants of populism. It's a fucking disaster, because it is deeply at odds with the legal and historic basis of our democracy. It always WILL be a tension.

I give a FUCK about party members in any direction. Mandate, schmandate. Their having their own choice of leader is a wholly modern phenomena. It is open to abuse, because membership to the parties is open. Anyone with a top class social media operation has a chance to take over by swelling the membership to people loyal to them. That stuff costs money and can be hidden from a population completely out of touch with what the Web actually is, and who is paying for you to see their shit. Crucially, it remains largely unregulated.

It's absolute horseshit, and it makes our politics far more like America. Which is the last thing this country ever was about.

This is where it has lead. Boris fucking Johnson! Sabotaging EU membership. Unprecedented cuts and an economic crisis.

Fuck party members. They are nothing compared to the constiuencies of this country. But they've taken over.

Hence, Tory Members will have Liz Truss as PM.

And Labour members would have Corbyn in power. As a face for various people, some of whom are great, others who really don't need serving. At all.

Just like we had Boris in power, who turned out to be there to serve himself, having been handed the crown by others who do not need serving.

 

[The perfect fumble]

To me it's done.

Corbyn was shafted and it's been more than proven. However Starmer has to show he's got a pair and remove the cunts who were slated in the report and start rebuilding faith with the members whom he'd rather suspend/expel for having the audacity of asking questions he doesn't like about the leadership and the direction of the party.

More chance of making ice cubes in my garden.

For Starmer the party is the problem.

 

[mat]

More chance of making ice cubes in my garden.

For Starmer the party is the problem.

Like B.Liar; Whom he admits he talks to for "advice." Sir Keir wants the Labour Party to be mould of the US Democratic party. Saying the right things but rarely acting on them whilst happily joining the neo liberal train.

 

[union city blue]

Their argument is that they were continuing to support a list of candidates that had been agreed, and that the LOTO staff told them to divert funding away from candidates that were anti-Corbyn to a different group who were pro-Corbyn, many of whom were in safe seats. The whole report is full of he said/she said, and doesn't reflect well on anayone. Frankly it's all a huge shit show, and there's a strong argument to expel anyone involved on either side - those that went behind Corbyn's back, and those that leaked the report.

It's ironic that the Peter Mandleson quote about working every day to stop Corbyn is a mantra of some on the left of the party, when we've seen since some of the his biggest fans campaigning every day against the Labour party.

I campaigned in 2017 for Labour, in 2019, in a Jewish area, where I got shouted at in the street, on one occasion when I was out delivering leaflets with my 4 year old son, and I'll be out campaigning at the next election.

When the Tories are ripping themselves apart, it's a shame that so many people who should be supporting Labour (and I'm not directing this at the poster I replied to) are screaming for blood and trying to refight these factional battles.

Like you I’ve retained my membership and continued to campaign for Labour but days like today really test my resolve to remain.

I will take issue with your comment about Corbyn ordering funding away from candidates who were anti-Corbyn. It’s simply not true. The reverse happened, and Labour staffers at HQ set up a secret fund, without authority, to support anti-Corbyn candidates at the expense of putting resources into winnable seats. I’ll give you an example: I know for an absolute fact that people were directed by the Party machine to support Alison McGovern, a prominent member of Progress, in Wirral South which was far safer than Wirral West, held by Corbyn supporter Margaret Greenwood. Her seat was marginal and Alison’s wasn’t, but one supported Corbyn and the other didn’t and so the one that didn’t had money and people directed to her constituency. It was factional and it waswrong.