Keir Starmer

hilts said:
The proof of that is a figment of your imagination. How utterly tedious this continuous deflection is. Most of you just flip arguments whenever there is a change of govt.

Tbh any shit that happens is deserved. Same crap on repeat.
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Well, no it’s not. We have a first past the post system. I want proportional representation but that isn’t likely to happen and certainly won’t before the next general election. The most likely alternative if it isn’t one of the main parties and it isn’t a coalition is reform. I have already seen plenty to be able to say with absolute certainty that that alternative would be far worse than having either Labour or the conservatives in power.

What I’d ideally like is, as I agreed with with subsequent response, is a Lib Dem green coalition. I assumed the poster I was replying to initially would class Lib Dem’s as part of the “uniparty”.
 
Postman Pep said:
Same. But that doesn't mean you contemplate all alternatives.

Case in point. Reducing everything down to who gets to arrange the deckchairs every now and again is kind of the problem.
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Maybe so but that’s the reality. And yes I do contemplate all alternatives, I’d hope everyone does. The way it is looking right now and the constituency I’m in, I will not be voting for who I want in power, I will be voting tactically to keep who I don’t want out.

That’s a fucking shame but that’s the consequence of the system we have right now.
 
meltonblue said:
Well, no it’s not. We have a first past the post system. I want proportional representation but that isn’t likely to happen and certainly won’t before the next general election. The most likely alternative if it isn’t one of the main parties and it isn’t a coalition is reform. I have already seen plenty to be able to say with absolute certainty that that alternative would be far worse than having either Labour or the conservatives in power.

What I’d ideally like is, as I agreed with with subsequent response, is a Lib Dem green coalition. I assumed the poster I was replying to initially would class Lib Dem’s as part of the “uniparty”.
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Arguing about Cameron Johnson whoever is utterly pointless, the system is fucked, we have had two 2 large majorities for 2 parties who neither deserved or delivered on that majority and donks in here keep attempting to point score.
You don't get PR and change by voting for the same shit. Labour had the opportunity but once they got power they wanted it all to themselves.
This country needs a left wing coalition with political reform at the top of the list.
If people dont fuck off fptp and this centrist neo lib crap we have voted for there really cant be any complaints.
 
It doesn’t matter who is leading the country, Britons are simply not ready for the things that need to be done to turn the country around. The decay has been decades, or more, in the making and it would require a sea change that would be unpalatable to too many people for it to get the votes needed.

Everybody wants someone else to “take their medicine” while leaving them alone because they’re not the problem.

Too many uninformed opinions, not enough mirrors.
 
hilts said:
Arguing about Cameron Johnson whoever is utterly pointless, the system is fucked, we have had two 2 large majorities for 2 parties who neither deserved or delivered on that majority and donks in here keep attempting to point score.
You don't get PR and change by voting for the same shit. Labour had the opportunity but once they got power they wanted it all to themselves.
This country needs a left wing coalition with political reform at the top of the list.
If people dont fuck off fptp and this centrist neo lib crap we have voted for there really cant be any complaints.
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I agree with what you’re saying there, not sure of the relevance of it to my post though? I’ve already said I want to see proportional representation.

Previously I have voted with who I was most aligned to. Mostly that’s been the Lib Dem’s, a couple of times it’s been the greens and once it’s been Labour.

At the next election, the constituency I’m in will either vote in reform or conservatives. Currently, reform are polling higher than any other party across the board. My vote is not going to help bring in pr and if you gave me a choice between reform or a “uniparty” then I will do all I can to stop reform, which is looking for me like lending my vote to someone I normally wouldn’t. All because, as I said in the first place, the alternative is a lot worse.

The next election will see more people doing that than ever I think, there will be a lot of tactical voting.

If there are people that live in constituencies that have a realistic chance of getting parties like the Lib Dem’s and the greens in who would push for pr then I will be pushing them to vote for them as much as I can too.
 
BlueNomad said:
It doesn’t matter who is leading the country, Britons are simply not ready for the things that need to be done to turn the country around. The decay has been decades, or more, in the making and it would require a sea change that would be unpalatable to too many people for it to get the votes needed.

Everybody wants someone else to “take their medicine” while leaving them alone because they’re not the problem.

Too many uninformed opinions, not enough mirrors.
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What do you suggest chief? Voting Green would be a start and banning air travel.
 
meltonblue said:
I agree with what you’re saying there, not sure of the relevance of it to my post though? I’ve already said I want to see proportional representation.

Previously I have voted with who I was most aligned to. Mostly that’s been the Lib Dem’s, a couple of times it’s been the greens and once it’s been Labour.

At the next election, the constituency I’m in will either vote in reform or conservatives. Currently, reform are polling higher than any other party across the board. My vote is not going to help bring in pr and if you gave me a choice between reform or a “uniparty” then I will do all I can to stop reform, which is looking for me like lending my vote to someone I normally wouldn’t. All because, as I said in the first place, the alternative is a lot worse.

The next election will see more people doing that than ever I think, there will be a lot of tactical voting.

If there are people that live in constituencies that have a realistic chance of getting parties like the Lib Dem’s and the greens in who would push for pr then I will be pushing them to vote for them as much as I can too.
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I replied to you because you put its better than the alternative, I also noted you put you would vote more for who you didnt want to get in/tactical. I cant really research everyone's voting history.

You have no proof how the alternatives would do and secondly individuals should vote for who they believe to be the best otherwise you are harming the party who aligns most with your view and supporting someone who doesn’t deserve it, where is their need to improve if you have given your support.
 
hilts said:
I replied to you because you put its better than the alternative, I also noted you put you would vote more for who you didnt want to get in/tactical. I cant really research everyone's voting history.

You have no proof how the alternatives would do and secondly individuals should vote for who they believe to be the best otherwise you are harming the party who aligns most with your view and supporting someone who doesn’t deserve it, where is their need to improve if you have given your support.
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Yes because it obviously is for me and a lot of others right now. The alternative to me is I continue to have a reform mp representing my constituency and them being the main party in Westminster. I will absolutely support the conventional main parties to stop that happening. And yes I do have proof, I’ve got both a reform council and a reform mp that I’ve seen do awfully for my area already and I think would it be far worse if they got into full power than continuing with a status quo. I’m not in an area that will ever vote for a proportional representation candidate. Normally I would still do it myself but given the current situation, I will absolutely vote against what is the only realistic alternative.

My desire for electoral change will never outweigh that for functional government, which we need more so right now then ever.
 
meltonblue said:
Yes because it obviously is for me and a lot of others right now. The alternative to me is I continue to have a reform mp representing my constituency and them being the main party in Westminster. I will absolutely support the conventional main parties to stop that happening. And yes I do have proof, I’ve got both a reform council and a reform mp that I’ve seen do awfully for my area already and I think would it be far worse if they got into full power than continuing with a status quo. I’m not in an area that will ever vote for a proportional representation candidate. Normally I would still do it myself but given the current situation, I will absolutely vote against what is the only realistic alternative.

My desire for electoral change will never outweigh that for functional government, which we need more so right now then ever.
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Reform is only one party and therefore it isnt proof that the alternatives are worse. Vote main parties then accept you get the same outcome. And by the main parties I mean Tory and Labour.

Fair play for voting lib dem or green in the past though. But you cant complain about fptp if you vote for a party that won't get rid of it. You have given that system your blessing thru your vote. You become a supporter of it in the eyes of the political party.
For me to have a chance of making a big difference to peoples lives in the future(not mine it's too late) I honestly believe the environment and a fairer democracy are our only chance.
Vote for actual change rather than someone you hope will be a bit less shit, its pretty much just giving up.
I mean we are at the stage where 0.1% growth is supposed to be something to be giddy about or a small amount people not claiming unemployment benefit(even that was supposedly slightly misleading from the comments) is great news.
Its got that depressing its like your house roof is leaking tons of water and you've found an egg cup.

My condolences on the reform MP btw.
 
hilts said:
Reform is only one party and therefore it isnt proof that the alternatives are worse. Vote main parties then accept you get the same outcome. And by the main parties I mean Tory and Labour.

Fair play for voting lib dem or green in the past though. But you cant complain about fptp if you vote for a party that won't get rid of it. You have given that system your blessing thru your vote. You become a supporter of it in the eyes of the political party.
For me to have a chance of making a big difference to peoples lives in the future(not mine it's too late) I honestly believe the environment and a fairer democracy are our only chance.
Vote for actual change rather than someone you hope will be a bit less shit, its pretty much just giving up.
I mean we are at the stage where 0.1% growth is supposed to be something to be giddy about or a small amount people not claiming unemployment benefit(even that was supposedly slightly misleading from the comments) is great news.
Its got that depressing its like your house roof is leaking tons of water and you've found an egg cup.

My condolences on the reform MP btw.
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It’s proof of the alternative I was referring to though. The question I responded to was why do people continue to vote for uniparty candidates. The reason I said because it’s better than the alternative is because that is entirely true for me right now and will be for a lot of others as the alternative is reform. That will be enough alone to make plenty still vote labour or conservative.

I’m not happy about it but that’s the reality.

Anyone that is in a constituency that does have an opportunity to vote for a candidate that supports pr and could get in, I’ll be cheering them from the rafters.
 
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Ban-jani said:
I’m beginning to think that it’s a poison chalice in that regard, or that the job just attracts cunts and they reveal themselves when in power.
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I’m about to vote in the Scottish election and am faced with trying to pick who will be least bad. Many of the more experienced MSP’s are standing down and they have hardly covered themselves with glory. The new influx will be bright young things groomed by their respective parties that have never run a business, looked after a large budget, managed serious risk, run a multi million £ programme…. These newbies will likely form part of a new government at some point whichever party is chosen. They each can make their promises but delivery is a different animal altogether. That is the problem. A few may be cunts as you suggest but then the majority may be useful local msp’s but totally incapable of taking on ministerial responsibilities.
Those that would be most capable of actually implementing meaningful change are not going into politics so we will continue to drift downwards whether that be Scotland or the UK.
 
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