Liverpool - post match thread.

blue ranger said:
But the truth is that in the summer we spent in the region of £150m yet still have the same deficiencies at full back, centre back in midfield. In addition we are lighter up front than we have ever been and have severely weakened ourselves in the goal keeper position. Surely we should have been able to expect some level of improvement?
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Your correct there should be evidence of inprovement not just in the quality of the squad but also with the balance within the squad.

We have got three centre halfs at the club, including Kompany in the squad and yet find ourselves with Nolito, Sane, Sterling, Navas, KDB, Silva, Jesus who play in the wide positions. This does not even include Roberts, Zinchenko who are currently out on loan.

To add to the issue we have over 100 million pounds worth of talent out on loan, who we cannot get rid off due to the wages they receive and a number of players in the squad near the end of their contracts who for similar reasons we could not have moved on even if we had hoped too.

The sides also lacks physicality, has aged in the fullback positions and within the attacking positions has little variety such as introducing a target man.

We also need to move away from this policy of continually overpaying for players with promise. Stones like many players is just potential but he has become the second most expensive defender in history, similar to the Mangala transfer 2 seasons ago. The game is littered with players with potential who never fulfill it. There is value in the market, Pool picked up two centre halves in the summer for a combined fee of 4.2 million and they look no worse defensively than us this year.
 
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bluemc1 said:
Our squad is well overrated, heard for few seasons that we have the best squad and never agreed
Awful defenders have been with us a while so don't know how we can have best squad
Coming into this season I felt only Hart Silva Fernandiho De-Bruyne and Aguero were good enough and we got rid of one of those to hugely weaken that area
Shame we didn't have a strong manager to see what Klopps seen and put Milner at full back, he can do that in his sleep and for a few years yet
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To be fair I would never have seen Milner as left back either , but he having a great season for them fair fucks 2 him.
 
It could have been worse, but we should have been better!

I accept that Guardiola is a genius, however, if he was sat with me now he could not convince me that bringing Ian on with 5 minutes to go was a good idea

Drop Aguero and get De Bruyne upfront. He holds it up like a forward but has the vision to bring others into play. Aguero has had it, its clearly not working

As for Kolarov, I'm sure it's been done to death but the whole game plan fell apart when he, lazyily, gave the ball away. No excuse
 
Walking on the blue moon said:
To be fair Conte's system is much easier to learn. There's a reason why his Italy team exceeded expectations in Euros despite not training together for a very long time. Pep did change tactics a lot, but I think he rarely betrays his fundamental concepts, and his changes did work more often than not, e.g. 2nd half against Arsenal.

It might be better had he made substitutions sooner, but who knows? Perhaps Pep has seen something worth keeping that we all missed. Or that he thought changes of personnel wouldn't have made much difference. Zaba, apart from the goal, did play an okay game yesterday and provided some semblance of support in attack. Nacho needs more games to polish his skills. Until then, he would probably remain a late impact sub. But this is a bloody conundrum. Kev started the game in the centre with too many passes gone astray. Not his day.

I think we're seeing a team in progress and as a result players make a lot of simple mistakes that is out of the coach's control. From the Chelsea game onwards (and even before that), it's game after game of sloppy passing not only in the final third, but also in our own half, and with the intrinsic frailty of our defence it is suicide. In the previous two games we got lucky but this time, not so much.

This may well be due to confusion and low confidence so I have almost nothing against our players, only hope that they learn as quickly as possible. And I will give the same amount of patience to Pep as I do to the players, for some of the things he has acheived since he arrived show promises of a great future. Yaya is one, and the Barca game another.
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Good(ish) post mate,but in a game / league of very fine margins (Kevs miss v renters), Zabbas role in the goal was decisive & ultimatly cost us the game.

However, Kolorov losing the ball in space & with time, level with their box & Sterling covering with his head up is arse didn't help either.

Yaya is better but only a sticking plaster & 45 minutes agin Barca & Arse & rags isn't good enough after 30 games imo.

Best to you.
 
Pep is proving all the cynics right. It's hard to argue with them really.

I was talking to an Everton fan last night. He was saying how he couldn't understand where Koeman was taking the team. Constant chopping and changing. Plays a back three, then a back four, never the same personnel. Persists with players out of form. Asks playes to do things they're clearly not capable of or suited to doing. No bite, no rhythm, no consistency. I honestly thought he was talking about Guardiola at one stage.

I have to say I've lost all faith in Guardiola, along with the last remnants of faith I had in Txixi. I know I'll get brickbats for that but honestly that's how I feel. As far as I can see, they are both proving to be clueless.

Honestly can anyone say with any confidence that we'll beat Burnley, or anyone for that matter? Or even predict with any level of surety what team and formation we'll play in the next game? That's a sorry state to be in given the money and resources we have at hand.

Luckily we still have Khaldoon and the Sheik, so at least we know things won't go spiralling completely out of control. I trust they'll make the right decisions at the right time.
 
citymad said:
I suppose the silver lining is next year we'll be a saturday to saturday team. Plenty of time to prepare for each game.
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Next year there will be no European advantage for any of the top 6 teams as they'll all be in Europe. No matter how bad City are they're not going to drop out of the top 6.
 
How kolarov and zaba got the nod for the full back positions is beyound me.
Not saying clichy is much better but when he has a run of games he plays steady.
Which was the case versus hull Arsenal and Watford.
Zaba has gone sad to watch really, like a old boxer having one last pay day
 
One thing I cannot get my head around.

During our 10 game winning run we played with a very specific strategy. When we had possession of the ball our back 5 moved in to the following positions:

Stones Fernandinho Otamendi

Zabaleta Kolarov

It sounds really stupid, but just a tactical tweak like this that has never been seen in England really bamboozled pur opponents. All of a sudden we had 2 extra men in midfield launching attacks and our opponents didn't know whether to mark them with their wingers or what. Fernandinho was great at launching attacks from defence as well.

Yet now we just seem to be playing the same boring rigid 4141 every week with a flat back 4.

Am I going mad, did this never happen? It's not necessarily about formations though it's about what our players do whilst in those formations.
 
mat said:
One attempt. One goal.

We played a lot better than BT Sport gave us credit for.

All the pep haters come back to me in three years as by then we'll have sick swaned the Scouse bastards.
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I'll have what you're drinking pal ;)
 
blue ranger said:
But the truth is that in the summer we spent in the region of £150m yet still have the same deficiencies at full back, centre back in midfield. In addition we are lighter up front than we have ever been and have severely weakened ourselves in the goal keeper position. Surely we should have been able to expect some level of improvement?
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Subjective assessment on improvements etc, but my point was we are not as strong as some (including the media) think we are. There are no guarantees that any purchase will improve you, and I don't think for one moment that task Txiki and his team has is as straightforward as some think also.
 
The-Dogs-Pollocks said:
Absolute bs. A good manager gets the most out of his players by motivating and instructing / coaching them to play a certain way. We have one of th e best squads in the prem. Certainly better than Liverpool's. If people are stating that pep needs to replace the majority of the team to be successful then I dont really rate him as a manager.
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Spot on. Sick of people making excuses for Pep. He has been given the tools, resources and facilities to not only be competing, but fucking walking this league. But his stubbornness and constant tinkering is killing us. He needs to fucking sort it, and fast.
 
YaYa's Left Peg said:
Pep is proving all the cynics right. It's hard to argue with them really.

I was talking to an Everton fan last night. He was saying how he couldn't understand where Koeman was taking the team. Constant chopping and changing. Plays a back three, then a back four, never the same personnel. Persists with players out of form. Asks playes to do things they're clearly not capable of or suited to doing. No bite, no rhythm, no consistency. I honestly thought he was talking about Guardiola at one stage.

I have to say I've lost all faith in Guardiola, along with the last remnants of faith I had in Txixi. I know I'll get brickbats for that but honestly that's how I feel. As far as I can see, they are both proving to be clueless.

Honestly can anyone say with any confidence that we'll beat Burnley, or anyone for that matter? Or even predict with any level of surety what team and formation we'll play in the next game? That's a sorry state to be in given the money and resources we have at hand.

Luckily we still have Khaldoon and the Sheik, so at least we know things won't go spiralling completely out of control. I trust they'll make the right decisions at the right time.
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Whereas I assume you'd want someone like klopp at the helm? Except in his first season in the prem, of course, because Liverpool finished 8th, wasn't it, and I'm guessing you would have definetly lost faith then?

Here's a manager who, imo and I'm sure a lot of people's, coached the best team I've ever seen play. He then went on to coach a very good Bayern side. He's won more trophies in the last decade than anyone. He's managed some of the best players in the world, implemented an attacking system that he's world renowned for, and probably has been given the biggest accolades from fellow professionals, colleagues and rivals than any other single manager to date.

Now you might not give a shit about any of that but let me ask you a question, if not Pep then who? Please tell me who you think could magically wave their wand and turn this side into champions within 6 months?

If you struggle to answer that how about just getting behind the manager, behind the team, and give him the support he needs to do his job. We have the chance to build something special with pep, it may not work, but let's not abandon it after 6 months!
 
YaYa's Left Peg said:
Spot on. Sick of people making excuses for Pep. He has been given the tools, resources and facilities to not only be competing, but fucking walking this league. But his stubbornness and constant tinkering is killing us. He needs to fucking sort it, and fast.
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So we needn't buy anyone this or next transfer window, is that what your saying?
 
bugsyblue said:
Whereas I assume you'd want someone like klopp at the helm? Except in his first season in the prem, of course, because Liverpool finished 8th, wasn't it, and I'm guessing you would have definetly lost faith then?

Here's a manager who, imo and I'm sure a lot of people's, coached the best team I've ever seen play. He then went on to coach a very good Bayern side. He's won more trophies in the last decade than anyone. He's managed some of the best players in the world, implemented an attacking system that he's world renowned for, and probably has been given the biggest accolades from fellow professionals, colleagues and rivals than any other single manager to date.

Now you might not give a shit about any of that but let me ask you a question, if not Pep then who? Please tell me who you think could magically wave their wand and turn this side into champions within 6 months?

If you struggle to answer that how about just getting behind the manager, behind the team, and give him the support he needs to do his job. We have the chance to build something special with pep, it may not work, but let's not abandon it after 6 months!
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Great post mate. Some posters are very needy and impatient. The irony is, they are probably the most vociferous in the transfer thread.

Happy New Year to you and all Blues
 
@BluePhil8 said:
One thing I cannot get my head around.

During our 10 game winning run we played with a very specific strategy. When we had possession of the ball our back 5 moved in to the following positions:

Stones Fernandinho Otamendi

Zabaleta Kolarov

It sounds really stupid, but just a tactical tweak like this that has never been seen in England really bamboozled pur opponents. All of a sudden we had 2 extra men in midfield launching attacks and our opponents didn't know whether to mark them with their wingers or what. Fernandinho was great at launching attacks from defence as well.

Yet now we just seem to be playing the same boring rigid 4141 every week with a flat back 4.

Am I going mad, did this never happen? It's not necessarily about formations though it's about what our players do whilst in those formations.
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Simple answer, the players had enough of the system after the Leicester defeat

We have been playing it their way since
 
Pep isn't the problem - his mate Txiki is. Pep has been hamstrung by inheriting a squad of unsuitable and old players, despite Begiristain having spent two seasons with a lame duck manager supposedly preparing for his arrival. The last two seasons were utterly disasterous.
 
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