Liverpool Thread - 2022/23

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Ducado said:
So you are saying he's a curse ;-)

You have to admit their implosion is both interesting (from the psychological point of view, it's what happens to most cults) and enjoyable in equal measure

And despite what they may believe (that they are the most loved and respected club and fan base in the universe) the rest of the football world is enjoying just as much as us
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Klopp is a poisoned chalice.

He’ll get you a measure of short-term success, as he has at all of his clubs, at the expense of long-term struggle, warning signs of the latter being hidden over several seasons by the cult following he builds. He is a deal with the devil.

As opposed to Pep, who gets you sustained success *and* sets up the club for further success (though, not quite the dominance, which you can only get with him specifically) after he leaves.

That attribute of Pep—creating a foundation for a club to do well without him, both on and off the pitch, as long as it appoints a competent manager to replace him—is arguably the most overlooked.

Despite their achievements whilst managing clubs—and you begrudgingly have to acknowledge them—continuity is absolutely not something most other supposedly “top” managers provide. Ferguson and Wenger didn’t (the former seemingly sabotaging the club to protect his legacy and the latter stubbornly overstaying his effectiveness to devastating effect). Mourinho famously doesn’t. Neither do Tuchel or Conte. Even Ancelotti does not guarantee a proper foundation post-departure. And you certainly don’t get that with Klopp; it’s the exact opposite basically everywhere he has managed.

Only Pep has consistently done it, after also providing success during his tenure. Some might argue that it is a small sample (Barca, Bayern, City) and that they are all big clubs with big apparatus behind them that supports their success beyond the manager. And that he hasn’t won the CL since leaving Barca.

But I would argue that actually makes what Pep has done even more difficult. Building a foundation is even more complicated at such high profile clubs. Sustaining it even more difficult. The CL, too, is a poor barometer, as it is both largely a crapshoot and also a very corrupt competition (see UEFA treatment of City and favouritism toward Real Madrid).

And, once more, City wasn’t at the level we are now when he arrived. We were good but not at Barca and Bayern’s level. He has helped to build us in to a juggernaut, even despite our missing out on CL glory thus far. We are now truly a top, top club, attracting the best young players in the world, and that will persist even after he goes (hopefully not for some time, mind).

Pep is the holy grail.

Klopp is one of the other cups in the manager talent crypt and now Liverpool are realising the consequences.

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Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Interim manager at Chelsea for the remainder of the season and then Klopp next season, or do you think he'll go further afield?
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I think he goes to Spain next. Not sure he’ll want to manage another PL club after Liverpool (it undermines his cult grooming tactics) and I think he wants to prove his approach works everywhere Pep has managed. I think he sees Pep has his ‘legacy rival’, whether he publicly admits it.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
The players appear to have stopped playing for him.
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i dont think stopped playing for him is right words. liverpools plan and always has been even with bodger was blow teams away in first 20 minutes then hoof it about. we controlled game even at 1 down we kept pass pass pass and just pissed them off
 
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