Lucy Letby infant murders trial - Guilty verdict (P 13)

[CarlosTevez'sEnglishTutor]

Yes. It depends. As broad as your imagination.

Someone playing up in a cell-you enter, piss drenched trousers in your face? Shit thrown at you (when they don't eat it) shit all over the walls, in the cell hatchway, on the ceiling.

If a prisoner wets toilet paper and manages to stick it to the camera or is uncontrollably violent, you may need to get a riot team together with shields to enter the cell and force the prisoner into a corner whilst you clean up.

Prisoners spitting in your face. Fighting everyone when they arrive in custody or when they are remanded and refuse to get on the van to court.

If a detainee refuses to leave their cell for interview or to be charged-you simply do it at the cell door and they will in all likelihood be remanded to court.

Prisoners using anything to hang themselves or bash their head against the walls.

Pushing their own eyes out.

These are a few examples of what I experienced.

Now that's not every prisoner but its every shift. And there are some incredibly strong and violent people out there.


I imagine that's how some behave whilst in the custody of the court-staff are poorly paid and do a stressful job. I'm not sure what forcing everyone to attend sentencing achieves? Other than a spectacle.

Respect to you if you have worked in jail. However, let's not fall into the trap of being namby-pamby Brits scared of upsetting the status quo.

This woman should have been dragged to the dock by her hair, covered in excrement or not. A Tornado Team ragging a feeble 9 stone bird up to a dock would've caused them much less pain and distress than what those poor families have had to endure. They have sat there for 10 months and been denied the chance to look this creature in the eyes when she was sentenced. That is wholeheartedly wrong and a national disgrace.

 

[Semper aggressus]

Yes. It depends. As broad as your imagination.

Someone playing up in a cell-you enter, piss drenched trousers in your face? Shit thrown at you (when they don't eat it) shit all over the walls, in the cell hatchway, on the ceiling.

If a prisoner wets toilet paper and manages to stick it to the camera or is uncontrollably violent, you may need to get a riot team together with shields to enter the cell and force the prisoner into a corner whilst you clean up.

Prisoners spitting in your face. Fighting everyone when they arrive in custody or when they are remanded and refuse to get on the van to court.

If a detainee refuses to leave their cell for interview or to be charged-you simply do it at the cell door and they will in all likelihood be remanded to court.

Prisoners using anything to hang themselves or bash their head against the walls.

Pushing their own eyes out.

These are a few examples of what I experienced.

Now that's not every prisoner but its every shift. And there are some incredibly strong and violent people out there.


I imagine that's how some behave whilst in the custody of the court-staff are poorly paid and do a stressful job. I'm not sure what forcing everyone to attend sentencing achieves? Other than a spectacle.

Or you could let the fucker sit in a cell full of their own piss and shit. They made the mess, fuck ‘em. Should have thought of that before murdering people shouldn’t they. Zero rights or sympathy for the cunts.

 

[bert38]

Respect to you if you have worked in jail. However, let's not fall into the trap of being namby-pamby Brits scared of upsetting the status quo.

This woman should have been dragged to the dock by her hair, covered in excrement or not. A Tornado Team ragging a feeble 9 stone bird up to a dock would've caused them much less pain and distress than what those poor families have had to endure. They have sat there for 10 months and been denied the chance to look this creature in the eyes when she was sentenced. That is wholeheartedly wrong and a national disgrace.

To whose benefit?

 

[CarlosTevez'sEnglishTutor]

To whose benefit?

Solely the victims' families. I imagine they feel robbed that she can plainly refuse to face them on the day of sentencing, and that be granted.

 

[mancboy]

would video linking the cell be a viable option or would that be considered torture for the defendant, the problem with harsher sentences for not attending is that if you already know you're on a life sentence there is nothing to throw at you

 

[bert38]

Solely the victims' families. I imagine they feel robbed that she can plainly refuse to face them on the day of sentencing, and that be granted.

The father of murdered police officer Nicola Hughes was on Radio 5 live this morning-he was also a prison officer. Its worth seeking out the recording if that's possible.

 

[bert38]

Or you could let the fucker sit in a cell full of their own piss and shit. They made the mess, fuck ‘em. Should have thought of that before murdering people shouldn’t they. Zero rights or sympathy for the cunts.

Where do you draw the line though? No rights whatsoever for anybody arrested or charged or just for crimes you deem heinous enough?

What if it were someoone in your family who had fallen on hard times; mental health crisis, drug addiction, petty crime, self harm issues. Would you want them treating with respect, compassion and dignity or simply 'fuck them?'

The law on PACE and safer detention is there for everyone-detainee/prisoner and staff. Its there for a reason.

One other aspect that interested me was when we had a real sociopath in custody (I'm not sure if that applies to Letby, but I'd guess its not far off). How they would manipulate and control the entire suite with their behaviour. They spend their whole lives doing that. Do you want that appalling behaviour in court? Sometimes its better to starve them of that attention.

 

[bert38]

would video linking the cell be a viable option or would that be considered torture for the defendant, the problem with harsher sentences for not attending is that if you already know you're on a life sentence there is nothing to throw at you

Covid meant 'virtual' courts. So video links set up in custody. Generally worked well. But same problem if someone refuses to come out of their cell. Cells all have cameras (I assume court cells will do too) but I don't think its viable in every cell-they'd last 5 minutes for starters.

 

[bert38]

Another point- alot of offenders are dishonest and spend their lives lying.

Drag someone to the dock, restrain them, in cuffs, leg ties whatever else-you'd get plenty that develop 'chest pains'...now do you get paid enough to ignore that because one day it may be true? It would descend into a horrible farce.

 

[CarlosTevez'sEnglishTutor]

Where do you draw the line though? No rights whatsoever for anybody arrested or charged or just for crimes you deem heinous enough?

What if it were someoone in your family who had fallen on hard times; mental health crisis, drug addiction, petty crime, self harm issues. Would you want them treating with respect, compassion and dignity or simply 'fuck them?'

The law on PACE and safer detention is there for everyone-detainee/prisoner and staff. Its there for a reason.

One other aspect that interested me was when we had a real sociopath in custody (I'm not sure if that applies to Letby, but I'd guess its not far off). How they would manipulate and control the entire suite with their behaviour. They spend their whole lives doing that. Do you want that appalling behaviour in court? Sometimes its better to starve them of that attention.

Fair point in bold. For me, the family should not be starved of the only bit of justice they will get.

Without oversharing, I have a close friend who fell on hard times during the pandemic with addiction and committed a totally out of character crime. I regularly visit him in prison, his first ever run in with the law in his late 30s. Addiction, mental health problems or not, we have some honest conversations and he fully accepts that he must show remorse for what he has done. You live and die by the sword in this life, if you commit a crime, you must face the consequences, including facing up to victims and their families.

As for being treated with respect in prison, this is somewhat lacking. I am a professional man with a clean record and strong morals. There is a polar opposite in treatment from staff when I go for a visit compared to when I have worked in jails as a contractor. My friend hasn't been given any leeway or respectful treatment from staff for being an ex-serviceman of previous good character. That is a wider issue that doesn't belong in this thread. People are grossly underpaid in prisons and the wrong young people are attracted into the job now, I have no doubt there is a clear correlation between this and the increase in violence inside prisons in UK.