Lucy Letby infant murders trial - Guilty verdict (P 13)

I haven't read all the thread, so maybe this has been said already: unbelievably she stayed in her cell and didn't appear in court for sentencing and to hear victim statements from the parents of murdered children.

How can this possibly be?

The papers are saying that a change of law now needs looking at.... but I don't think that is necessary at all. Prison Guards could use reasonable force to get her into the dock (and if she starts shouting off may I recommend Gorilla Tape?) but they didn't apparently fearful that 'reasonable force' could so easily become 'unreasonable force' and they could be sued!

What is going on in this country right now, will nobody actually show some courage and do the right thing?

Even if she struggled and a 15 stone guard broke her arm, would anyone really be bothered? She is lucky it is not the 1950s a broken arm wouldn't be the issue, it would be a broken neck....
You have to step back and look at the broader picture.

What happens when somebody dies in the dock? What happens when poorly paid geo-amey staff are badly hurt? Unfortunately in this country 'gorilla tape' does not equate to reasonable force-and neither should it.

Every day prisoners refuse to leave their cells for interviews in custody, refuse to get on transport to court, refuse to leave their cells for hearings at court. Everyday custody staff are injured dealing with the worst of society, every day prison staff are assaulted.

Politicians can chase angry voters but I don't see any way law change to 'force' offenders to appear can work-other than impose greater sentences for refusing.

These crimes are incredibly rare-justice was served yesterday. the system may not be perfect but it does work.
 
Just got a gut feeling it had something to do with her infatuation for one of the doctors. The only time she got emotional in court was when questioned about him.
In the Movie of the Week version, it’ll be the Doctor’s pregnancy she was forced to terminate that made her do it!

“If I can’t have one, others shouldn’t either!”
 
I haven't read all the thread, so maybe this has been said already: unbelievably she stayed in her cell and didn't appear in court for sentencing and to hear victim statements from the parents of murdered children.

How can this possibly be?

The papers are saying that a change of law now needs looking at.... but I don't think that is necessary at all. Prison Guards could use reasonable force to get her into the dock (and if she starts shouting off may I recommend Gorilla Tape?) but they didn't apparently fearful that 'reasonable force' could so easily become 'unreasonable force' and they could be sued!

What is going on in this country right now, will nobody actually show some courage and do the right thing?

Even if she struggled and a 15 stone guard broke her arm, would anyone really be bothered? She is lucky it is not the 1950s a broken arm wouldn't be the issue, it would be a broken neck....
It’s bollocks that criminals are forced to listen to hours of “victim impact” statements. It is masturbatory and serves…or should serve…no purpose.
 
I take it you have then? Honest question, if an offender doesn't want to go in a cell, what do you do then? Say OK it's your right not to? Same applies to removing someone surely. What's the difference?

As for your populist nonsense put down and silly hanging remark, I know it grieves some people who feel their opinion should override that of others and that the will of the masses should not be taken into account but that's how democracy should work im afraid.
Yes. It depends. As broad as your imagination.

Someone playing up in a cell-you enter, piss drenched trousers in your face? Shit thrown at you (when they don't eat it) shit all over the walls, in the cell hatchway, on the ceiling.

If a prisoner wets toilet paper and manages to stick it to the camera or is uncontrollably violent, you may need to get a riot team together with shields to enter the cell and force the prisoner into a corner whilst you clean up.

Prisoners spitting in your face. Fighting everyone when they arrive in custody or when they are remanded and refuse to get on the van to court.

If a detainee refuses to leave their cell for interview or to be charged-you simply do it at the cell door and they will in all likelihood be remanded to court.

Prisoners using anything to hang themselves or bash their head against the walls.

Pushing their own eyes out.

These are a few examples of what I experienced.

Now that's not every prisoner but its every shift. And there are some incredibly strong and violent people out there.


I imagine that's how some behave whilst in the custody of the court-staff are poorly paid and do a stressful job. I'm not sure what forcing everyone to attend sentencing achieves? Other than a spectacle.
 
Yes. It depends. As broad as your imagination.

Someone playing up in a cell-you enter, piss drenched trousers in your face? Shit thrown at you (when they don't eat it) shit all over the walls, in the cell hatchway, on the ceiling.

If a prisoner wets toilet paper and manages to stick it to the camera or is uncontrollably violent, you may need to get a riot team together with shields to enter the cell and force the prisoner into a corner whilst you clean up.

Prisoners spitting in your face. Fighting everyone when they arrive in custody or when they are remanded and refuse to get on the van to court.

Prisoners using anything to hang themselves or bash their head against the walls.

Pushing their own eyes out.

these are a few examples of what I experienced.

Now that's not every prisoner but its every shift. And there are some incredibly strong and violent people out there.


I imagine that's how some behave whilst in the custody of the court-staff are poorly paid and do a stressful job. I'm not sure what forcing everyone to attend sentencing achieves? Other than a spectacle.
OK fair enough, not pleasant at all. And you just create twice the problems with them being twats. Perhaps just increase the sentence then for non attendes. What's your solution.
 
You have to step back and look at the broader picture.

What happens when somebody dies in the dock? What happens when poorly paid geo-amey staff are badly hurt? Unfortunately in this country 'gorilla tape' does not equate to reasonable force-and neither should it.

Every day prisoners refuse to leave their cells for interviews in custody, refuse to get on transport to court, refuse to leave their cells for hearings at court. Everyday custody staff are injured dealing with the worst of society, every day prison staff are assaulted.

Politicians can chase angry voters but I don't see any way law change to 'force' offenders to appear can work-other than impose greater sentences for refusing.

These crimes are incredibly rare-justice was served yesterday. the system may not be perfect but it does work.
Can't argue with your last sentence.
 
OK fair enough, not pleasant at all. And you just create twice the problems with them being twats. Perhaps just increase the sentence then for non attendes. What's your solution.
Yes, you can alter the law so that prisoners are compelled to attend sentencing. I fully support that-and with that an increase in sentence should they fail to do so.

And there will be plenty of times when gentle 'encouragement'-arm entanglement etc will be appropriate. (It is very commonplace for a prisoner to refuse to leave the cell, refuse to have their fingerprints taken etc when communication, talking it through, or using their solicitor as an intermediary will work). But in extreme circumstances its just not appropriate or safe for all involved.

I don't think we are miles apart in our views-I just see the practicalities of doing it.
 

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