Mancini fear of failure?

[cleavers]

Whoever the best manager is, we should have him.

If we have him, say so and lets move on. If we don't, just admit it and let's move on.

However, if we don't have the best manager, and the best manager becomes available, then a decision needs to be made that is in the best interests of MCFC. Everything is gamble, but some odds are shorter than others.

Largely agree, but your first sentence is missing a very important word "available". The best managers are unavailable at this time, including ours.

 

[shadygiz]

I was talking about posters like Crossan who continue to peddle the "anti Mancini" bullshit as if we don't all want what is best for City. It's pathetic and borders on trolling - but he knows that.

I know how many footballers you know - the point I'm making is that the sport is incredibly subjective so people on here will always gravitate towards those they agree with and as you say those who 'agree' will make more sense to each other.

Apologies if it came across as insulting...

whats all this "fuckwit" shit about. we all have different views but in my opinion there is not one single fuckwit on here, i dont agree with all on here but fuck me it would be a quiet place if we all agreed.

lets keep the debate civil, interesting but civil.

its all been edited out mate....no worries ;)

 

[SWP's back]

And some are.

So you don't think Dave, that the money that has come into our possession has changed the very nature of a hell of a lot of fans?

Serious question.

Not a chance, the fans want to see good football like we always have. Banter and piss taking is always rife at games, our real fans have not changed one bit.
Forget the argument that we dont see eye to eye for a moment, I haven't seen a change in the fans I see 1st hand, Internet forums maybe, but not genuine fans. Do you?

I think you may have a very good point there mate.

At the games, home and away, no not really. Though I do have the occasional argument with fellow blues that never stop bitching about Yaya or Balo tracking back at away games.

But on forums, then yes. I also notice a difference between City fan mates that go to the games and mates that only watch on TV/Internet. The ones that have been to the games, generally (so I am not aiming this at anyone on here), tend to be less inclined to use the media cliches about certain players than those that listen to commentary.

That may suggest a reason why this forum can sway so much. Though the anti-Mancini sentiments on this thread, I know, are coming from match going blues.

 

[gio's side step]

Not a chance, the fans want to see good football like we always have. Banter and piss taking is always rife at games, our real fans have not changed one bit.
Forget the argument that we dont see eye to eye for a moment, I haven't seen a change in the fans I see 1st hand, Internet forums maybe, but not genuine fans. Do you?

I think you may have a very good point there mate.

At the games, home and away, no not really. Though I do have the occasional argument with fellow blues that never stop bitching about Yaya or Balo tracking back at away games.

But on forums, then yes. I also notice a difference between City fan mates that go to the games and mates that only watch on TV/Internet. The ones that have been to the games, generally (so I am not aiming this at anyone on here), tend to be less inclined to use the media cliches about certain players than those that listen to commentary.

That may suggest a reason why this forum can sway so much. Though the anti-Mancini sentiments on this thread, I know, are coming from match going blues.

Fair post that.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Not a chance, the fans want to see good football like we always have. Banter and piss taking is always rife at games, our real fans have not changed one bit.
Forget the argument that we dont see eye to eye for a moment, I haven't seen a change in the fans I see 1st hand, Internet forums maybe, but not genuine fans. Do you?

I think you may have a very good point there mate.

At the games, home and away, no not really. Though I do have the occasional argument with fellow blues that never stop bitching about Yaya or Balo tracking back at away games.

But on forums, then yes. I also notice a difference between City fan mates that go to the games and mates that only watch on TV/Internet. The ones that have been to the games, generally (so I am not aiming this at anyone on here), tend to be less inclined to use the media cliches about certain players than those that listen to commentary.

That may suggest a reason why this forum can sway so much. Though the anti-Mancini sentiments on this thread, I know, are coming from match going blues.

There's no doubt that the views on forums are not representative of City fans overall. Anyone can use the internet these days, and contraversial opinions are the most visible.

But you're the one who suggested that City fans have changed. I keep saying it to you and all the other "you're all spoilt children" nay-sayers. Bar the addition of a few tv-watching foreigners, our support hasn't changed significantly at all. All around me are the same people who've been there for years acting in exactly the same way.

The debate should not be about our fan's attitudes. Those who expect more than we're getting at the moment are acting entirely rationally given the money spent.

 

[cleavers]

It puts the fucking fear of God in me that Mancini will not get sacked. This man will take us nowhere.

But I'm sure he will and the main reason this season will not be his leadership skills and tactical decisions. It will be his transfers. When you're waving around hundreds of millions of pounds you should not end up with Kolorov, Boateng, Milner and Ya Ya, all who have not delivered on the pitch enough to justify their big price tags.

Way harsh in my opinion that - and here' why. I don't see Milner as a failure, but as someone who probably turned up thinking he was going to play central midfield (where he had excelled at Villa) - instead he has been shunted for the most part between right and left wing (nominally). Again, too much chopping and changing and too many players being asked to play in different positions.

Yaya - I'm a big fan. Yes he can look leggy at times, but again, he's been playing as a number 10 in behind Carlos for most of the season. For me, he's a two man holding wall alongside De Jong or Barry. Not a box to box number 10 (I realize they are two different types of players but Mancini has asked him to do both jobs).

Kola and Boat - the jury's out for me. We'll see.

The thing is, unless it's Mou who wants to come to replace him, I don't see the point in sacking him unless the problem becomes terminal - and right now it isn't. What I really don't want is another manager coming in and going "right, I'm keeping these 10 players, and these 10 can go" thereby having another season of transition...I'm going to sound like some of my biggest detractors but I think we do need stability.

Agree with most of that Billy, I also have considerable problems with all the chopping and changing, especially at the back, where we play a different back 4 every game, and the parts within the back 4 change constantly, full backs playing centre back, fullbacks playing left midfield, fullbacks playing defensive midfield, centre backs playing full back, etc etc, we need stability, but we need it in the team as well as the management structure.

I don't think his signings are bad, but I don't think some have settled yet (and may never if they keep being moved about). Milner has looked decent every time he's played without Barry playing, Barry looks decent when Milner doesn't play, Milner looks decent in centre midfield, but mostly hopeless when wide. Yaya should only be in and around the box when we have a corner or set peice, he's not a forward, he could be a box to box player, but can't do it all. Kolorov will never settle while he's being messed about backwards and forwards, he certainly isn't a winger, why play him there, yes he can get forward, but for me he doesn't have the pace to be an attacking fullback (or winger), and defensively he seems to keen to get forward, which means we need cover all the time, hence why Zab keeps playing behind him. Boateng looks like a centre back to me, and a good one at that, and its my feeling he will compliment Vinny very well, if ever given the chance, and for that we need Richards fit, or a new full back. Lescott has done very well recently for me, so where to play him ? Injuries have played a part, but not always, and its no coincidence that Hart has looked less convincing either.

One other thing that is driving me mad, and seems to be getting worse, is our set piece play, we constantly give away stupid set pieces, which give every team we play a number of opportunities to score against us, whilst at the other end, our own set pieces are largely a waste of time, corners rarely beat the first man, and free kicks are normally a wasted wayward shot. This is one thing that the training ground should be able to sort out, but ours has failed now under the last 3 managers, its inexcusable for me.

To me, and this is damning against Mancini after this long in charge, he still doesn't know what his first team is. He has an embarrassment of riches but doesn't seem to know how to fit them all together into a "team". I'm all for players having flexibility, in fact its what I really liked when Mancini first took over, the fact that he seemed to want everyone to be able to play in another position or two. I still think this is a good thing, and could be a winning way to play, but the players have to have "their" position, and mostly stick with it, footballers by and large are not the brightest individuals in the world, so expecting them to be so flexible as to be able to change positions 3 or 4 times per game, or every week, is asking too much in my opinion.

We play some lovely football at times, but its far far too slow for the Premier League, and unless a team attacks us, we struggle, and they've almost all noticed this now, hence our form has dipped. Despite the recent results, we have played some of our worst games of the season in the last 3 or 4 weeks (acknowledging that we played well, and were unlucky at OT) , I don't think anyone can deny that. We struggled to beat Notts C, despite the eventual difference in goal tally, we started really well against Aris, but gave up at 2-0, and that could very easily have gone bad until we got the third, despite them being about Notts C level, and finally Fulham bullied us at the weekend, and that is a major worry, because with the size of our lads there isn't a team in the world that should be able to bully us. Clearly any team missing Kompany, De Jong, and Silva are going to be less than their best, but complaining about tiredness, or lack of numbers is just papering over a poor (very poor) performance.

I don't think we've progressed this season either, and in recent weeks the signs are we could be going backwards.

 

[forevermancity]

Not a chance, the fans want to see good football like we always have. Banter and piss taking is always rife at games, our real fans have not changed one bit.
Forget the argument that we dont see eye to eye for a moment, I haven't seen a change in the fans I see 1st hand, Internet forums maybe, but not genuine fans. Do you?

I think you may have a very good point there mate.

At the games, home and away, no not really. Though I do have the occasional argument with fellow blues that never stop bitching about Yaya or Balo tracking back at away games.

But on forums, then yes. I also notice a difference between City fan mates that go to the games and mates that only watch on TV/Internet. The ones that have been to the games, generally (so I am not aiming this at anyone on here), tend to be less inclined to use the media cliches about certain players than those that listen to commentary.

That may suggest a reason why this forum can sway so much. Though the anti-Mancini sentiments on this thread, I know, are coming from match going blues.

That's a great post mate. People like me and didsbury Dave etc have never really changed opinion on Mancini ( I started to believe in him afew months ago but only for afew days, but then in my mind he reverted back to type) the posters who are anti Mancini one week then forze Mancini the next are probably the type of fan who wasn't there in the dark days.
The typical city fan is still amongst us we have always liked die hard players who work their arses off, goater, tiatto, Doyle, Tevez, Ndj, kompany et al.
I personally have liked all our managers except Hughes ( never going to take us to the next level) and Mancini for reasons I've stated a million times before so I'm not going to bore everyone :)

 

[Damocles]

Wothout trying to sound like a broken record, I'd ask everyone to reserve final judgement on the talents of Kolarov until this time next year. Don't we all remember how laughably bad Evra was when he went to United in his first season?

Players do seem to need time to settle in our league, and it would be unfair to crucify him and declare he's a shit player after around 20 games

 

[SWP's back]

I think you may have a very good point there mate.

At the games, home and away, no not really. Though I do have the occasional argument with fellow blues that never stop bitching about Yaya or Balo tracking back at away games.

But on forums, then yes. I also notice a difference between City fan mates that go to the games and mates that only watch on TV/Internet. The ones that have been to the games, generally (so I am not aiming this at anyone on here), tend to be less inclined to use the media cliches about certain players than those that listen to commentary.

That may suggest a reason why this forum can sway so much. Though the anti-Mancini sentiments on this thread, I know, are coming from match going blues.

There's no doubt that the views on forums are not representative of City fans overall. Anyone can use the internet these days, and contraversial opinions are the most visible.

But you're the one who suggested that City fans have changed. I keep saying it to you and all the other "you're all spoilt children" nay-sayers. Bar the addition of a few tv-watching foreigners, our support hasn't changed significantly at all. All around me are the same people who've been there for years acting in exactly the same way.

The debate should not be about our fan's attitudes. Those who expect more than we're getting at the moment are acting entirely rationally given the money spent.

Whilst I understand where you are coming from and I don't think that you (and your ilk) are being entirely unrealistic, I would say that at this moment in time, you may be jumping the gun. Espcially when you say that Mancini must be sacked (though I assume you think at season closed) and that we will never win anything with him.

Can we not look at that come June. By then we may well have won a cup (favourites in one and 2/3 favourites in the other) and finished top 4.

Re the spoilt brat statements. Try and think of it like this. If you ever watch "My Super Sweet 16" or "Teen Cribs" or whatever, I am sure you sit there and say - "The spoilt little bastards, wanting this and that and moaning that they only got an Audi when they wanted a Porsche" etc etc. But if you were to talk to them and say "Fuck me you spoilt bastard, you have it all, great house, lifestyle, car etc" then I am sure they would come back to you and reply "But the with money my parents have, so increases my expectations" and they may have a point (just as you do). But they are still spoilt.

 

[Soulboy]

I think the problem is that we've been sussed. The manager's been sussed. Our tactics and style of play have been sussed.

We are now so predictable. And if oiks on Bluemoon can spot that then I very much suspect that Premiership managers have also spotted it.

Are our coaching staff good enough to take us to where we want to go?

That's the crucial question, for me, now.

Otherwise we are just going to have to keep on spending until we get right...