Mancini out? (merged)

[Ragnarok]

As I mentioned last night. There is little evidence to suggest that Mancini will be able to improve on his CL record next season, baring in mind we will more than likely end up in a group with two top teams again. If he is given the opportunity then I can't help but think it will be the very definition of last chance saloon and failure ie. not progressing from the group, would not be tolerated.

I agree, if he doesnt progress from the group next season, he will be gone

 

[mostonbluemark]

As I mentioned last night. There is little evidence to suggest that Mancini will be able to improve on his CL record next season, baring in mind we will more than likely end up in a group with two top teams again. If he is given the opportunity then I can't help but think it will be the very definition of last chance saloon and failure ie. not progressing from the group, would not be tolerated.

What evidence Billy?

 

[Anonymous]

As I mentioned last night. There is little evidence to suggest that Mancini will be able to improve on his CL record next season, baring in mind we will more than likely end up in a group with two top teams again. If he is given the opportunity then I can't help but think it will be the very definition of last chance saloon and failure ie. not progressing from the group, would not be tolerated.

What evidence Billy?

Here's what LoveCity posted earlier in the thread. Sums it up pretty well.

I'm a big Mancini fan but it's not dramatic to call him a failure in the Champions League so far. The best he's done in 7 attempts being the quarter finals but the most alarming thing is he's regressed rather than improved in Europe. Chronologically his CL record is: Group stage, quarter final, quarter final, last 16, last 16, group stage, group stage. Take out his first failure with Lazio (understandable) and it's a downward slope I'm afraid.

Considering the teams he had at Inter and the team he has at City there's evidence in those results that he hasn't got to grips with European football as a manager. We're not even taking into account the failed Europea League campaigns with City.

 

[waspish]

Some fans think bringing in a new manager would improve us!

Guess what it could go the totally opposite way..

finding a proven manager one that has won cups and leagues in the premier is a gamble at this stage we shouldn't be doing, the grass over that fence sometimes isn't better!

 

[Marvin]

Billy must be assuming that Champions League football is somehow different to the rest of football. It isn't. I think the players learned that this season.

You can't argue that such and such is a good manager in domestic football, but a bad manager in Europe. The Premiership is now a European game with foreign managers, and foreign footballers. There are subtle differences, but if you can beat Man Utd and Arsenal, you can beat Ajax and Dortmund. And we will unless someone presses the panic button and throws everything into doubt

 

[Anonymous]

You can't argue that such and such is a good manager in domestic football, but a bad manager in Europe.

I can and I have the evidence to back it up, Mancini's record of failing to get to a single European final despite nearly a decade of managing top teams with top players and countless opportunities to do that. He might well one day get there, but he's not there yet, and there's no evidence to suggest that he's suddenly going to find the magic formula over the next six months. If anything the overriding sentiment I keep reading is that we should give Mancini a shitload of money this summer to make us more competitive in Europe. I don't think that's going to find much favour with the powers that be ...

 

[NipHolmes]

Billy must be assuming that Champions League football is somehow different to the rest of football. It isn't. I think the players learned that this season.

You can't argue that such and such is a good manager in domestic football, but a bad manager in Europe. The Premiership is now a European game with foreign managers, and foreign footballers. There are subtle differences, but if you can beat Man Utd and Arsenal, you can beat Ajax and Dortmund. And we will unless someone presses the panic button and throws everything into doubt

Of course it is, I cannot believe you wrote that.

You get playing style variations, you get a top.standard of talent and you also get teams penalizing every mistake.

I can't believe you think CL is the same as premier league. Just ridiculous.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't believe you think CL is the same as premier league. Just ridiculous.

I think Marvin has had his account hacked by Mancio ... ;)

 

[Marvin]

You can't argue that such and such is a good manager in domestic football, but a bad manager in Europe.

I can and I have the evidence to back it up, Mancini's record of failing to get to a single European final despite nearly a decade of managing top teams with top players and countless opportunities to do that. He might well one day get there, but he's not there yet, and there's no evidence to suggest that he's suddenly going to find the magic formula over the next six months. If anything the overriding sentiment I keep reading is that we should give Mancini a shitload of money this summer to make us more competitive in Europe. I don't think that's going to find much favour with the powers that be ...

I know his record in European competitions is appalling

But don't think there's much essential difference between Champions League football and domestic football other than it's of a higher quality and intensity. But if you have the skills to manage successfully in domestic football, why can't you manage successfully in Europe.

What are the differing skills?

I was very dissappointed when we got knocked out and initially blamed Mancini, but I have changed my opinion. I thought there was some special secret to managing in European competitions, but it's just football of a higher quality and our players had a mental-block about it

There's no guarantee we'll do better next season but all things being equal I think we will

 

[mostonbluemark]

As I mentioned last night. There is little evidence to suggest that Mancini will be able to improve on his CL record next season, baring in mind we will more than likely end up in a group with two top teams again. If he is given the opportunity then I can't help but think it will be the very definition of last chance saloon and failure ie. not progressing from the group, would not be tolerated.

What evidence Billy?

Here's what LoveCity posted earlier in the thread. Sums it up pretty well.

I'm a big Mancini fan but it's not dramatic to call him a failure in the Champions League so far. The best he's done in 7 attempts being the quarter finals but the most alarming thing is he's regressed rather than improved in Europe. Chronologically his CL record is: Group stage, quarter final, quarter final, last 16, last 16, group stage, group stage. Take out his first failure with Lazio (understandable) and it's a downward slope I'm afraid.

Considering the teams he had at Inter and the team he has at City there's evidence in those results that he hasn't got to grips with European football as a manager. We're not even taking into account the failed Europea League campaigns with City.

Not knowing the circumstances around some of his earlier teams i can only comment on his tenure at City. I would agree that the evidence suggests that he struggles in Europe. Particularly where we are concerned though he has had a couple of difficult groups to get out of. Should we have done better? Undoubtedly yes. But that doesn't follow that next season he will struggle to get out of the group stages. If he is allowed the two/three players that will help us kick on i'm sure we will have nothing to fear getting out of the groups. After that its a lottery. Just as a matter of interest which clubs have knocked out the previous clubs he has been at?