Mancini out? (merged)

[Mayor West]

"Stability breeds success" if one of football's biggest pieces of garbage.

You only have to look to Chelsea to see this is true.

 

[NipHolmes]

By the way folks if Chelsea sign Falcao and get Jose and United keep their staff + a few additions we will do well to come second let alone first under Mancini.

The staked could not be bigger, I know a few realise this but some don't. "We should give him another eason because of what he's done.". Companies nationwide are facing bleak times and situations, they make redundancies to staff that hav worked there for years, decades for some. They do so because they do what's best for the future.

In regards to Billys post about performances, spot on. In Tennis terms you can lose to Federer, that's no bad thing, it happens to everyone. But no, the difference can be losing by 3-2 sets or losing via straight sets. In boxing you can lose to Mayweather, you can either lose like Mosley did where he was picked apart for 11 of the 12 rounds or you can do a Castillo where you nearly win (did win on some cards) and push to the wire.

Losing is a loss I know, but there's losing whilst doing well and there's losing for not being as good as you could be and in my book we've lost whilst plating beneath ourselves which is fundamentally unacceptable.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

how do you know we were looking at other managers?

and he was protecting himself, the media were calling for his head and he obviously wasn't a 100%

i'd do the same if people were saying i was going to be sacked, even though nothing had come from my bosses.

explain to me why he's got a 5 year contract?

So it was entirely reasonable for Mancini to protect himself, but our owners are so incompetent, they would not have made any attempts to do likewise?

to say our owners are incompetent to say the least is crazy, they have changed our club from top to bottom and in the future we will be a major force with a state f the art training complex, they also have done alot of good for the area. They've done all I ever dreamed of and more in my eyes. Sure they might of made a few mistakes but seriously?

Read it again, mate!

I'm clearly suggesting they are far from incompetent!

 

[Anonymous]

"Stability breeds success" if one of football's biggest pieces of garbage.

It's only applicable in England. Look across the continent and the rest of the world when it comes to football and you find managers have a shelf life of around 3/5 seasons max. Depending on how innovative they are and how much their squad likes them there can be exceptions but generally the rule of thumb is that as soon as a coach looks like he's run out of ideas or run out of ways to motivate the players, you move him on.

It's only in England that we seem to forward the idea that keeping the same coach over a long period of time is the way to great success ... and the only reason we do this is because of Ferguson ( and to a lesser degree Moyes ).

 

[Rolee]

There has been a regression this season, to state the bloody obvious, but it's being overstated by some.

The difference is our results at home against the 'big' sides. That difference however is minimal. Take the Rags, Red and Blue Dippers and Arsenal, that was 12 points at home last season, it's 3 this season. When winning them 12 points we didn't exactly dominate them games, they were tight games that could have gone either way, particularly the Arsenal game. Thankfully we just about found a way through against a stubborn Everton side and the Liverpool game the scoreline flattered us. The Rags sucker punched us this year after their desperate attempt to hold us to a draw this year.

Right I'm rambling a bit now but my point is there are fine lines between success and failure, the latter doesn't necessarily come about through this big regression that some are referring to.

In my opinion Mancini has earned the right to learn from his mistakes and right his wrongs next season.

Mancini in.

 

[Anonymous]

"Stability breeds success" if one of football's biggest pieces of garbage.

it does more often than not.

there are of course exceptions.

 

[flb]

I dont WANT Mancini out as such, but I think he will be gone and I can no longer say that that isn't for the best all round. We really have been a shadow of our former selves all season. The squad isn't actually as good as people make out but by the same token we just haven't put up any kind of fight throughout the whole season.

There are so many aspects to all this, so many questions and issues but ultimately we have gone backwards drastically. Unless we win 11/12 of our remaining fixtures we are going to be way down on points total from last season. There are mitigating circumstances but I just don't think Mancini has the backing of the players any more. Normally I would say fuck the players and support the manager but I have always praised Mancini and the board for not only bringing in quality players but also players that seemed to be level headed and with the right attitude. If then, these 'professional' players seem to have turned on him, I have to wonder where it leaves the manager.

Truth be told I think it will be better for everyone involved if Mancini left in the summer. Certainly he himself seems to not be very happy here and I'm sure the job offers from Italy would come pouring in. He will carry on being successful, no doubt about that.

That said we can only sack him if we have a better candidate lined up to replace. I love Mancini for what he has done for us and will be gutted the day he does leave but I am only interested in the best for MCFC.

Here here


theres just three words that spring to mind and they are Rodwell,Garcia and Sinclair

For the life of me i cant see why we are spending circa £200k a week in wages and spunked over 30 million for players that havent enhanced the squad.

By all accounts we baulked at the Hazard fee and wages for a much needed wide player and bought two water carrying midfielders we didnt need.


We are now in a position where we have more dead wood to shift-whos going to buy Kolorov,Dzeko,Rodwell,Garcia,Sinclair?

Or will it take changing the manager to get more out of the whole squad-i know where my money lies.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

By the way folks if Chelsea sign Falcao and get Jose and United keep their staff + a few additions we will do well to come second let alone first under Mancini.

The staked could not be bigger, I know a few realise this but some don't. "We should give him anoth season because of what he's done.". Companies nationwide are facing bleak times and situations, they make redundancies to staff that hav worked there for years and tears, decades for some. They do so because they do what's best for the future.

In regards to Billys post about performances, spot on. In Tennis terms you can lose to Federer, that's no bad thing, it happens to everyone. But no, the difference can be losing by 3-2 sets or losing via straight sets. In boxing you can lose to Mayweather, you can either lose like Mosley did where he was picked apart for 11 of the 12 rounds or you can do a Castillo where you nearly win (did win on some cards) and push to the wire.

Losing is a loss I know, but there's losing whilst doing well and there's losing for not being as good as you could be and in my book we've lost whilst plating beneath ourselves which is fundamentally unacceptable.

Good post - Dunkirk - a glorious failure.

Manchester really doesn't have much going for it. Our major names are competing at the highest of levels, with a chance of success, getting paid shitloads in the process.

Top players can always get paid shitloads somewhere else.

They also need to feel inspired and convinced they are putting up with the downsides, being away from home, weather, family, for good reason.

They first bought into the idea they were sold by our owners. It needs to stay that way.

Otherwise, it will also impact who we are able to recruit this summer.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Being potless come end of season can and does happen. I'm not worried about it happening again but its too simple to just state it like that. You can get potless by end of season by losing in the FA cup semis/final, chase down league to withing a few points etc. Then theres crashing out to Villa in the CC, gaining a solitary point v Ajax over 2 legs in Europe and losing the league by mid Feb.

It's a point oft ignored by people ... Mancini isn't under pressure because we might finish the season without a trophy. He's under pressure because of the performances of the team. Thus if he is dispensed with, it'll be because of those performances. Not because we finished the season potentially without a trophy.

I completely agree, but I'd also add that if he's sacked it will be more about the future than the past. If the board/DoF deem that he cannot fulfil City's ambitions, they will get someone else in. To make that decision they have to look at the whole picture: results, performances, mitigating circumstances, morale, future funding, track record etc.

This is absolutely correct. I've been fortunate to have been given a little insight into how the owners work. Mancini will be meeting with the club management, particularly Soriano & Begiristain, on a regular basis anyway.

I'd be surprised if there hasn't been (or is scheduled to take place) a meeting to have an in-depth discussion about his philosophy, how he plans to put us back in contention next season and in future seasons, transfer targets, development plans etc. The answers he gives, particularly if they're way out of line with what FS & TB were expecting or don't give them confidence he can deliver what's been asked of him, will determine his fate. Where we finish or what we win is largely irrelevant to that outcome. That may sound daft but it's true, as I understand things.

It's also my understanding that Mancini was never seen by the owners as the ideal choice for our long-term manager but Hughes forced their hand which meant him coming in at short notice. So far he's done enough to stay there and/or the right person hasn't been available. I'm not sure but I believe Hiddink was the man they had in mind initially. But I'm also sure they'll keep him on until the right person does become available & commit. That might change if there was a major dressing room revolt and we were in serious danger of losing key players. But otherwise I'd be very wary of saying he either will or won't be our manager next season.

 

[NipHolmes]

I dont WANT Mancini out as such, but I think he will be gone and I can no longer say that that isn't for the best all round. We really have been a shadow of our former selves all season. The squad isn't actually as good as people make out but by the same token we just haven't put up any kind of fight throughout the whole season.

There are so many aspects to all this, so many questions and issues but ultimately we have gone backwards drastically. Unless we win 11/12 of our remaining fixtures we are going to be way down on points total from last season. There are mitigating circumstances but I just don't think Mancini has the backing of the players any more. Normally I would say fuck the players and support the manager but I have always praised Mancini and the board for not only bringing in quality players but also players that seemed to be level headed and with the right attitude. If then, these 'professional' players seem to have turned on him, I have to wonder where it leaves the manager.

Truth be told I think it will be better for everyone involved if Mancini left in the summer. Certainly he himself seems to not be very happy here and I'm sure the job offers from Italy would come pouring in. He will carry on being successful, no doubt about that.

That said we can only sack him if we have a better candidate lined up to replace. I love Mancini for what he has done for us and will be gutted the day he does leave but I am only interested in the best for MCFC.

Here here


theres just three words that spring to mind and they are Rodwell,Garcia and Sinclair

For the life of me i cant see why we are spending circa £200k a week in wages and spunked over 30 million for players that havent enhanced the squad.

By all accounts we baulked at the Hazard fee and wages for a much needed wide player and bought two water carrying midfielders we didnt need.


We are now in a position where we have more dead wood to shift-whos going to buy Kolorov,Dzeko,Rodwell,Garcia,Sinclair?

Or will it take changing the manager to get more out of the whole squad-i know where my money lies.

Either Milan for Kola.
Inter or Dortmund for Dzeko.
Rodwell stays.
Garcia stays even though I'd sell.
Sinclair goes to Everton/Newcastle of team like that imo. QPR wouldn't shock me if they stop up.

 

[flb]

I dont WANT Mancini out as such, but I think he will be gone and I can no longer say that that isn't for the best all round. We really have been a shadow of our former selves all season. The squad isn't actually as good as people make out but by the same token we just haven't put up any kind of fight throughout the whole season.

There are so many aspects to all this, so many questions and issues but ultimately we have gone backwards drastically. Unless we win 11/12 of our remaining fixtures we are going to be way down on points total from last season. There are mitigating circumstances but I just don't think Mancini has the backing of the players any more. Normally I would say fuck the players and support the manager but I have always praised Mancini and the board for not only bringing in quality players but also players that seemed to be level headed and with the right attitude. If then, these 'professional' players seem to have turned on him, I have to wonder where it leaves the manager.

Truth be told I think it will be better for everyone involved if Mancini left in the summer. Certainly he himself seems to not be very happy here and I'm sure the job offers from Italy would come pouring in. He will carry on being successful, no doubt about that.

That said we can only sack him if we have a better candidate lined up to replace. I love Mancini for what he has done for us and will be gutted the day he does leave but I am only interested in the best for MCFC.

Here here


theres just three words that spring to mind and they are Rodwell,Garcia and Sinclair

For the life of me i cant see why we are spending circa £200k a week in wages and spunked over 30 million for players that havent enhanced the squad.

By all accounts we baulked at the Hazard fee and wages for a much needed wide player and bought two water carrying midfielders we didnt need.


We are now in a position where we have more dead wood to shift-whos going to buy Kolorov,Dzeko,Rodwell,Garcia,Sinclair?

Or will it take changing the manager to get more out of the whole squad-i know where my money lies.

Either Milan for Kola.
Inter or Dortmund for Dzeko.
Rodwell stays.
Garcia stays even though I'd sell.
Sinclair goes to Everton/Newcastle of team like that imo. QPR wouldn't shock me if they stop up.

You reckon we will make a profit on any of those?

If Garcia and Rodwell are staying who will be leaving with our top heavy numbers in midfield?

Barry - better than both Garcia and Rodwell
Milner- ditto
Yaya-ditto


They are two bad buys that will stop transfers in at a level that will suit City.


I forgot to mention Nasri in my list-a waste of time, certainly under Mancini anyway.

 

[NipHolmes]

We will lose.

Kola less than 10m.
Dzeko 20m or so.

Garcia stays but we I think we get 10m

Sinclair we should recoup or profit. Zaha cost 15m afterall.

 

[flb]

We will lose.

Kola less than 10m.
Dzeko 20m or so.

Garcia stays but we I think we get 10m

Sinclair we should recoup or profit. Zaha cost 15m afterall.

Sinclair is another Wayne Bridge, hes not even getting minuites on the pitch to even gain any value,Garcia is just a slow pretty boy who looks good in Hugo Boss and Rodwell spends more time in the treatment room than he does on the pitch.

Three shocking buys.

 

[jay_mcfc]

It's a point oft ignored by people ... Mancini isn't under pressure because we might finish the season without a trophy. He's under pressure because of the performances of the team. Thus if he is dispensed with, it'll be because of those performances. Not because we finished the season potentially without a trophy.

I sometimes agree with what you say

I mostly disagree with what you say

But that post is absolutely bang on and my feelings exactly. It is for this reason that the FA Cup is absolutely irrelevant to him being our manager next year, whether we get knocked out on Sunday or win the whole thing.

I honestly think that his only chance of being here next season is if we win the next 12 games in the league and he has players like Kompany and Yaya saying they want him to stay.

10% indeed

 

[Moody]

So it was entirely reasonable for Mancini to protect himself, but our owners are so incompetent, they would not have made any attempts to do likewise?

to say our owners are incompetent to say the least is crazy, they have changed our club from top to bottom and in the future we will be a major force with a state f the art training complex, they also have done alot of good for the area. They've done all I ever dreamed of and more in my eyes. Sure they might of made a few mistakes but seriously?

Read it again, mate!

I'm clearly suggesting they are far from incompetent!

my bad mate sorry, are specsavers still doing 2 for the price of 1 ?

 

[Anonymous]

It's a point oft ignored by people ... Mancini isn't under pressure because we might finish the season without a trophy. He's under pressure because of the performances of the team. Thus if he is dispensed with, it'll be because of those performances. Not because we finished the season potentially without a trophy.

I sometimes agree with what you say

I mostly disagree with what you say

But that post is absolutely bang on and my feelings exactly. It is for this reason that the FA Cup is absolutely irrelevant to him being our manager next year, whether we get knocked out on Sunday or win the whole thing.

I honestly think that his only chance of being here next season is if we win the next 12 games in the league and he has players like Kompany and Yaya saying they want him to stay.

10% indeed

Funnily enough Jay ... I think he's more likely to stay than go, simply because I think the pool of managers available after the WC 2014 will be far more impressive than this summer. I suspect the only way he goes this summer is if performances get worse than last Saturday OR Mourinho/Klopp make themselves available.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Funnily enough Jay ... I think he's more likely to stay than go, simply because I think the pool of managers available after the WC 2014 will be far more impressive than this summer. I suspect the only way he goes this summer is if performances get worse than last Saturday OR Mourinho/Klopp make themselves available.

If Mourinho is available, which he seems to be, I'm certain we'll go all in on him. With Pep gone, there is only Mourinho or Klopp (don't think he'll leave myself) plus the likes of Simeone as possibilities. When you think City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal will be looking for a manager in the near future, we need to be very wise with our decision making.

 

[Anonymous]

If Mourinho is available, which he seems to be, I'm certain we'll go all in on him. With Pep gone, there is only Mourinho or Klopp (don't think he'll leave myself) plus the likes of Simeone as possibilities. When you think City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal will be looking for a manager in the near future, we need to be very wise with our decision making.

I think City need to be proactive. Just as they had Mancini lined up long before Hughes was dispensed with, they should be doing their bidding for the next manager in the next few months whether it's for this summer or next. Bayern began wooing Pep properly last summer.

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's also my understanding that Mancini was never seen by the owners as the ideal choice for our long-term manager

I can say for a fact that this is true. I have never been ITK about anything but a couple of months before Christmas by some weird chance I did become party to some dialogue between the Sheik and Khaldoon. They were more than clear that Mancini was not the long term choice and that they wanted Guardiola at the end of the season at the latest, Christmas if they could get him. I was shocked when he went to Munich, but I guess in the end he just did not want to come to Manchester and we couldn't persuade him.

 

[BlueMoonz1977]

It's also my understanding that Mancini was never seen by the owners as the ideal choice for our long-term manager

I can say for a fact that this is true. I have never been ITK about anything but a couple of months before Christmas by some weird chance I did become party to some dialogue between the Sheik and Khaldoon. They were more than clear that Mancini was not the long term choice and that they wanted Guardiola at the end of the season at the latest, Christmas if they could get him. I was shocked when he went to Munich, but I guess in the end he just did not want to come to Manchester and we couldn't persuade him.

And where did you become party to this dialogue ?